Who's bright idea was Ethanol?!?!? - Freeze-Frame Radio

Jeremy Riggs · Do I look a little pale to you?

Who's bright idea was Ethanol?!?!?

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

didja see that the cost of food is rising in third world countries, and can be attributed partially to corn being diverted for fuel use instead of to feed people?

Jeremy Riggs · Do I look a little pale to you?

WTH!

Has ethanol actually kept the price from going any further? If so, what is it, a penny or two?

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

the future of our reliance on oil must be a desperate enough cause to look for alternative fuel sources. But to do so instead of feeding people is wrong. In many 3rd world countries that rely on foreign food subsidies, the cost has risen 120% for the food in the last 2 1/2 months.

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

I watched a show on the History Channel about energy. On studies that they've done, they said the return on Ethanol is 1.3. For every unit of energy used to get the corn produced and then made into ethanol, they get 1.3 units back out of it . . . not a very good return.

They said that sugar cane has about a 5 times return and "switchgrass" has a 10 times return. They said that switchgrass will grow from North Dakota to Florida and doesn't need nearly as much water and chemicals as corn to grow. So, why are we not growing switchgrass for ethanol?

They also talked alot about solar and wind power and showed some of the advancements being made in those areas. The FedEx West Coast distribution center in California is running on solar power. They make enough electricity during the day to power the facility and also sell some back into the grid. At night, it runs off the grid with the difference of what they sell to what they buy being that they only have to buy 20% of their total electricity used.

It was an interesting show.

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

Yet farmer's are getting subsidies for not being able to make enough money, land goes unplanted, and land gets bought up to make subdivisions where houses are empty or foreclosed on because of the crappy economy. There's something wrong with the whole system, not just ethanol.

And, you can't just blame ethanol for the increasing demand for corn. Go on my diet for a while. Corn is in EVERYTHING! High fructose corn syrup anyone?

And when it comes to pizza, most of the pizza places use just as much corn as wheat. Corn meal, corn oil...

squonk · RetroMan

What's even more humorous... how many farmers were subsidized for dumping corn in the old days?
A new bumper sticker: "Stop feeding cows - Start feeding cars" sponsored by the corn farmers of the world.
It's been proven that Ethanol does decrease emissions. It has also been proven that Ethanol in a car that isn't "perfectly" tuned will result in lowered mpg. Which in turn means, that car is going to burn more ethanol laced petro. Thus, causing more pollution per mile. Catch 22 of sorts. Hmm.
We need to get right to the flux capacitor!

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

THat's what I was thinking too, MZ. How many farms are paid to NOT GROW anything??

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

WebGuy wrote:

I watched a show on the History Channel about energy. On studies that they've done, they said the return on Ethanol is 1.3. For every unit of energy used to get the corn produced and then made into ethanol, they get 1.3 units back out of it . . . not a very good return.

They said that sugar cane has about a 5 times return and "switchgrass" has a 10 times return. They said that switchgrass will grow from North Dakota to Florida and doesn't need nearly as much water and chemicals as corn to grow. So, why are we not growing switchgrass for ethanol?

They also talked alot about solar and wind power and showed some of the advancements being made in those areas. The FedEx West Coast distribution center in California is running on solar power. They make enough electricity during the day to power the facility and also sell some back into the grid. At night, it runs off the grid with the difference of what they sell to what they buy being that they only have to buy 20% of their total electricity used.

It was an interesting show.

I've heard all of that too on various PBS programs (probably Frontline).

When we finally buy a house, I'd love to make it "green". Solar panels, a system to reuse rain water, etc.

Jeremy Riggs · Do I look a little pale to you?

Frito-Lay is doing something similar to Fedex with one of their production plants. By 2010 they will be totally off the energy grid.

Not only for electricity but for water as well. They are filtering and reusing their own water.

I think the whole ethanol thing is just another big political lobbyist deal. I honestly believe it has nothing to do with what would be more effective, just what lobby greased enough palms.

Jeremy Riggs · Do I look a little pale to you?

squonk wrote:

What's even more humorous... how many farmers were subsidized for dumping corn in the old days?
A new bumper sticker: "Stop feeding cows - Start feeding cars" sponsored by the corn farmers of the world.
It's been proven that Ethanol does decrease emissions. It has also been proven that Ethanol in a car that isn't "perfectly" tuned will result in lowered mpg. Which in turn means, that car is going to burn more ethanol laced petro. Thus, causing more pollution per mile. Catch 22 of sorts. Hmm.
We need to get right to the flux capacitor!

If we had a flux capacitor we could just go back to 1950 everytime we need to fill up and get our gas for .25 a gallon

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

I'm all for the idea, ideally, of a larger use of public transportation. But seriously tho, in this day and age, I can't blame people for not wanting too. Who do you want to sit by? The Boogie Man or The Booger Man. bleh

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

JD The Jazz Doctor wrote:

I'm all for the idea, ideally, of a larger use of public transportation. But seriously tho, in this day and age, I can't blame people for not wanting too. Who do you want to sit by? The Boogie Man or The Booger Man.

Public transportation is nice in a big city. But anywhere else, it is so poorly organized. Here, one bus goes from downtown to the south side and back, another to the west side and back, etc. But if you don't live in a compass direction, or you're trying to get somewhere other than downtown, it's a waste of time. When it takes you 2 hours to get somewhere you could've drove in 10 minutes, I'm not encouraged to use it.

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

There's an old joke around here.

Do you know why corn farmers always bend the bill of their caps in to half round shapes?

Being the same shape as the mailbox, It makes it easier for them to look into it to see if their latest government check has arrived.

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JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

aw shucks.... smile

ghostdancer · Ghost In The Machine

Last month my dad was up to his cottage and he went to buy corn to begin feeding to the critters up there. Every farmer he went to was out! The farmers told him that a lot of people up in Gladwin county and the surrounding counties have installed corn burners to heat their homes; hence they've bought up all the corn the farmers had.

I truthfully don't know what the answer is to alternative fuel sources. But I agree with JR........there is something wicked heading our way!!

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

Okay, I just read an article that rice prices have skyrocketed. Rice!

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

yea NPR was saying that too when I was out for lunch.....

like a 30% increase to the highest price ever....

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

Rice! I thought rice was always a cheap food. It's freakin' rice!