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Post Info TOPIC: Businesses urge 'no' vote on sick leave


Grand Poobah

    



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Businesses urge 'no' vote on sick leave


Businesses urge 'no' vote on sick leave

Business leaders voiced a loud "no" today to a city of Milwaukee referendum that would require employers to provide paid sick leave to their employees.

The referendum that will be on the Nov. 4 ballot in the city of Milwaukee will be expensive, discourage and displace business and cost the city jobs, opponents said at a meeting sponsored by the Metropolitan Milwaukee Association of Commerce at the University Club.

MMAC President Tim Sheehy said members have expressed "loud and strong objections" to the measure that they hope to defeat.

The lone proponent on the panel for the referendum was Ellen Bravo, the former head of 9 to 5, the National Organization of Working Women, who now teaches at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee. 9 to 5, along with a coalition of organizations, gathered enough signatures to get the measure on the ballot.

"Milwaukee can be a pacesetter so that workers don't have to choose between a sick child and losing a job," she said. "It's good for business because it will reduce stress and create a healthier and more stable work force."

She noted that some businesses, such as Legacy Bank, already provide paid sick days off and have found that it works well.

If passed, the referendum would create an ordinance that would require employers in Milwaukee to provide paid sick days off for full-time, part-time and temporary workers. Full-time employees of large businesses would earn one hour of paid sick time for every 30 hours worked or a total of 9 days a year for those working 40 hours a week.

Employees working at a small business with 10 employees or fewer would get five days a year for working a 40 hour week. The days could be used for medical treatment, diagnosis and prevention for the worker or a close family member.

John Topp, CEO of the Allied Construction Employers Association, called the aims of the referendum commendable but estimated it would cost $43 million, disrupt competition and cause companies to move outside the city.

Collective bargaining contracts already cover benefits, he said. "We don't need a third party telling us what to do," he said, adding there are already other mandates businesses have to follow.

Ed Lump, president and CEO of the Wisconsin Restaurant Association, said restaurants hire many entry and part time workers and depend on service.

"An employee has the obligation to tell us if they are sick, but we don't need to cover everyone with a broad brush," he said. Such a law could mean that employees hours, pay or other benefits could be cut, he said.

Bravo countered by saying paid sick days would help attract businesses, retain workers and reduce turnover costs. According to a recent study by the nonpartisan Institute for Women's Policy Research, more than 77,000 workers in the city would get paid sick days as a new benefit, she said.



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Permanent State of Confusion

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I don't think that is fair to enforce it on a business. While I think it is good to give employees a few days paid leave for sick or personal time, part-time or temporary workers really shouldn't be eligible. Unless you are going to lay down strict rules for accruing and using time. I know that it probably provide people who need it good coverage, but there are people out there who also trying to abuse programs such as this. 9 paid days off seems like a lot of time. That in addition to the two weeks that most employees get for vacation time, is usually too much time off as far as a business is concerned. Some smaller businesses may not be able to afford to fund that kind of program.

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Grand Poobah

    



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I agree fuzzy, 9 does seem excessive. Lets go the mid-ground compromise, how about 4.5?smile

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Permanent State of Confusion

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I can deal with that. Give an employee five paid days to use them however they need them - sick or personal time. But no stacking that against your vacation time. You know, vacation Monday thru Friday but you are sick or take a personal day the Friday before? Because we all know how that last workday before vacation drags on forever. Just don't abuse it. Maybe as a reward or incentive, you offer to buy the remaining days back at the end of the year.

And definitely let the business offer it, don't demand it from them unless the government is going to help them fund it, which defeats the purpose.

That does lead to an interesting question. Maybe we should do a poll tomorrow. Do you get sick or personal time and if so, how many days?

I received four days. We get those days because of the nature of the business, we have no other company days off except the standard holidays. So there is no day after Thanksgiving off for me unless I use a personal day.

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Grand Poobah

    



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we get 1. implemented 2 yrs ago.
I tell ya, give us 3 even. Mental health days...The benefit would outwiegh the cost to the company.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


Permanent State of Confusion

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I agree. That is what I call them - mental health days.

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Bad Biker Granny



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Our company doesn't exactly have a designated number of sick days. We have a bank of "PTO" (Paid Time Off) days which is essentially our vacation/ personal days. If you are sick, that is just something else. Hourly paid employees have to call in then have to record their time under a particular payroll code, but they still get paid in most cases. Salaried employees just call in... still get paid. We actually have something else called "VTO" (Voluntary Time Off) which is unpaid leave that is offered at the discretion of management if you are out of PTO and you still need some time off. I think that is one of the cool things about working here... they are very flexible with time in all jobs except the call centers.

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Permanent Vacation



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I get 5 paid days off, whether I'm sick or vacationing. But, there's really no set limit for unpaid days off. Obviously, there's a practical limit.

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Ghost In The Machine

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Being part time, I don't get paid for any sick days and let me tell ya, it really, really sucks!!  While I don't expect the 10 days full time employees get, it sure would be nice if I got 2 or 3, especially since I work in a germy school.  hmm

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Bad Biker Granny



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I do remember the days of no paid sick time. That does suck. The weird thing about getting paid sick time is that I almost never take it. I have to be hard core ILL to not go to work.

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Darth Raydar

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Wow. I guess I've been very fortunate. The company I work for, before they were sold to Crescent Electric, was very accomodating. We got one sick day a month. That would roll over year to year. We had guys take their vacation and then burn through all their sick days too. I thought that was stupid because you could bank it if you had a long illness or had to have surgery. You could use the banked days as short-term disability if needed. When I left the company I had nearly 120 days banked. I lost it all, there was no compensation for them. So I guess the guys that used all of theirs were smarter than me. Once we were sold everyone lost all the banked sick days and, if memory serves me, now the hourly folks get a half day for every month or 6 for the year. Everyone who doesn't use any sick days each quarter gets their name put into a pool and one person is drawn and receives $250. Not bad. Since returning to the company I've become an account manager I no longer have specific vacation or sick time. As long as I'm covering my nut I can use as much as I want. However, I try to keep it within reason. I probably take 3-4 weeks of vacation strung out over the year and maybe 1 or 2 sick days. Last year I did have 5 sick days when I spent a week in the hospital but this year I haven't taken any time off for illness. Knock on wood.

As far as it being a government forced policy, I think it's a bad idea.

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The Chosen Woo

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we get 2 personal days I think. But it really is all lumped in with all your vacation time.

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Grand Poobah

    



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I'm still torn on this issue. I can completely understand how something like this would make milwaukee less desireable than it already is to do business. But then again, businesses and business owners have always whined about workers rights whenever something new came up.

the thing is, the business owners are going home to mansions in the suburbs, driving jaguars and lexus' there to go boohoo. meanwhile I'm taking my economy sedan back home to my one bedroom apartment, hoping I can make ends meet this month.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


Grand Poobah

    



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you know, bring this up when business is booming, not during a recession.....

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


2011 Super Bowl Champions!

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I agree with several of the points raised.

First, I think the government should stay out of it.  Mandating sick days isn't their place.  If an employee doesn't like their current arrangement they can look for a job that has the bene's they want.  There will always be companies out there that offer those bene's to get the best employee's.  That's the way a free market works.

Second, like JD said, now is NOT the time to be pushing the issue.  People are lucky to have jobs at all right now.  It's amazing to me we haven't hit double digit unemployment yet.

The problem with sick days is that there is always a segment of losers who will treat them like vacation days and make sure they use every last one of them.

For that reason I'd be more in favor of companies simply giving two or three days extra of vacation every year and telling the employees their sick days can come from there.

One day a month seems really excessive to me.  You only work 20 days a month to begin with.  If you need 1 day off out of every 20 because you're sick I'd be pretty unhappy with your performance if I were your employer.  That's not a very reliable employee.

But that's my two cents.  And I'm biased because when my employees would call in sick I was directly affected by it.

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Grand Poobah

    



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on the other side of the coin, if we were to get 9, I'd feel obligated to use 9, so as not to lose the "free pass" day. But, that would directly affect my ability to earn overtime. I'd rather earn overtime then get a day off....

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult

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I can't help but wonder if mandatory paid sick days will come out of the employees' hides anyway. If they're mandatory benefits, it seems like another excuse companies can use to pay a little less or alter some other benefit.

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Grand Poobah

    



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yea watch 401k matching be the thing thats lost...

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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JD - please make sure you tell the result of this vote next week, mainly because I am curious.

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2011 Super Bowl Champions!

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A Journal-Sentinal poll today:


What percentage of paid sick days that employees take do you think are legitimate?

90 percent (8%)
blu_grad_backgrnd_JSO.gif
75 percent (17%)
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50 percent (37%)
blu_grad_backgrnd_JSO.gif
25 percent (36%)
blu_grad_backgrnd_JSO.gif


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Grand Poobah

    



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I sure will fuzzy.smile.gif

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


Grand Poobah

    



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this was the real sweat at the poll issue for me. I ended up voting no. Not in this economic climate.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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I hope we were a little help to you to at least think through the issue some. Tell me what the paper says tomorrow about the final results.

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Grand Poobah

    



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I sure will fuzzy.smile.gif

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


2011 Super Bowl Champions!

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If you want to check out the ongoing results of this vote you can see the updates here...

http://elections.todaystmj4.com/G4103.htm

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2011 Super Bowl Champions!

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Looks like this one is going to pass by a landslide.

And Wisconsin government get's a little MORE intrusive.

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Grand Poobah

    



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yea its gonna pass. on this one workers will pay somehow. lower raises, less 401k contributions. businesses are threatening to leave. It will be interesting to see if the threats are real.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


Doesn't Do Windows



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Business owners don't all have endlessly deep pockets just because they are business owners.

Very VERY few actually make it to the mansion on the hill.



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I am surprised. I guess not everyone sees it from both sides. I guess most people are only seeing it from their side, which equals more paid time off. This will hurt the small business owners the most. And I agree the workers will suffer in other ways, they just don't know it yet. And when they figure it out it will be way too late. And when they gripe, as a business owner I would tell them that the fools that live in the city passed it so your beef is with them.

I wonder how they are going to enforce this. I hope businesses do relocate. Not far, just out of the city. Stupid local government.

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Grand Poobah

    



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yea. I fear its all the GIMME GIMMES out there that just shot themselves in the foot. Didn't see the bigger picture....

Personally, I don't need 9 sick days (knock on wood). So am I going to get paid for them if I don't use them or will I eat them?

What a mess.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09
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