- i wanted to move this off the thread of the president question because i figured we were getting quite political...
- my question is "what are the American people going to gain or what have they gained from war in Iraq?' Maybe it is because I am young or uneducated on the subject, or maybe i just don't understand, but i just can't figure out how this will help America.
I am curious to hear the responses on this one, i don't want a rebuttal, just a list of things that the forum members thinks will be gained from the war.
I believe it is best chance to quell terrorism. No, we will never completely eliminate terrorism, but building a democracy in Iraq could set about a change in that entire region which could eventually lead to a safer world.
This is hard, because we are no longer a country with the stomach to do something that costs our lives unless we see it as being quick and with a definate result. But building a democracy will take a decade or more, and this action in Iraq will not be able to be judged fairly until your childrens children are in school learning about it.
I must say MJ, that I really do like the fact that some members of the forum enjoy this kind of a topic.
As JD knows I follow politics very closely, and I still believe we can make a difference. I'm ashamed to live in a blue state. It baffles my mind that a heartland state like Wisconsin is lumped in with NY, IL & CA when it comes to our values and our voting.
It's cool though that there's people in the forum that want to share their thoughts and even cooler that we're a group of people that can so easily discuss things without getting mean spirited as so many chat rooms and forums do when it comes to politics.
You know, the ONE THING that scared the hell out of me when September 11 happened is that my sister, who was 20 and a freshman in college at the time didn't even know what had happened and didn't really care. In fact, she asked me after the event when the president was giving a speech if "that was the president".
Our society is so self-absorbed, so used to having what it wants, when it wants it, that we don't have a sense of greater importance anymore. If it doesn't affect me, today, then what do I care.
I think politics can be discussed under two conditions.
ONE, it should be clear in the topic that it is a political thread, so if it's not of interest to someone they don't have to read it.
and TWO, it has to be a conversation, not an arguement. Politics can be very divisive, but at the same time, you can actually learn something from someone else's point of view too.
I can't tell you how hard it was for me not to be political on-air during the campaign. But that's a line I didn't want to cross. Now that we're investigating Pod-casting though, hmm......
Hopefully cheaper gas prices!!! But really that is part of it. I believe that Bush wanted to oust Saddam for what he did during his father's rein. I also believe that he wanted to stop his genocide and spread democracy through both Iraq and the entire middle east. It is sad though that similar artocities go on in Africa, but we choose to ignore them, but we plundered Africa centuries ago and there is nothing there for us. Also, we have no true oil supplies and we need peace and allies in that area to secure oil for ourselves. Unfortunately this war among the middle easterners has gone on for 2000+ years. But you have to start somewhere.
Another soap box subject for me. If we read the constitution it tells us that we have a duty and obligation to help people that seek freedom. OK, sometimes I have budgetary concerns being fiscally conservative. But how many September 11th's will it take before we take any action. Yes, I know So Damn Insane was not involved or tied with that unspeakable attack. However, terrorism in any form cannot and should not be tolerated. the fact of the matter is that he snubbed his nose at the world. I think the cowardly way he was found speaks volumes for the type of person he was. Look at the difference between the warriors. When an American Soldier dies, he dies wispering his mothers, wife or kids name. He fights for his family, for their better good and the freedom of this country and his family. What did the Nazi soldiers do when dying, cried out for Hitler, Iraquis hollerd for Saddam, who hid.
I come from a long line of patriots to this country--I expounded in the what if I were president thread. But will restate this, "The surest way for evil to triumph, is for decent honest men to do nothing."
Where is the line drawn and at what point is enough, enough. When one weeds the garden early, then maintains the here's and there's, a successful crop is produced. Left neglected the weeds overtake the garden until there is no saving it. The entire garden must be hoed down and tilled under to start over.
If I could, I would be with my brothers in Iraq or Afghanistan right now. No greater love has a man than to give his life for his friend or his country. I cringe at the cowardly reaction that Clinton had during his administration. I truly believe had he taken the courageous measures, that would not have been as drastic as they are today, because the weeds were more thin, this price would not have to be paid today. Remeber that the bulk of the planning was conducted under the clinton administration, it was executed only days into the Bush administration. I agree with JR--I truly believe that Clinton will be remembered as one of the worst presidents in US History. What kind of man lies under oath, then smiles--and how disgusting that we the people let him get away with it. You and I would be in jail for the very same lie.
Although I don't believe this is about oil, but I do believe it's a finishing up of daddy's war and I have no problem with that because it NEEDED to be finished.
In fact, my biggest complaint when we were dealing with endless UN resolutions that essentially said "NO REALLY, WE MEAN IT THIS TIME, LISTEN TO US OR WE'LL PASS ANOTHER RESOLUTION" is that we did NOT need a reason to go in, we ALREADY HAD ONE!
We stopped in 1991 at the foot of Baghdad because Saddam Hussein signed a cease fire agreement with us. He subsequently violated that cease fire agreement on almost a daily basis.
I do believe that Clinton should've finished the war instead of kinda just pulling out like he did. Then we wouldn't be in the situation that we are now. But I do believe that a war against terrorists needs to be handled differently, not like a war. Terrorists are individuals, and I think they need to be targeted as such. Even if they are a group, there as much as a group as we as forum members are. Look at how many places you would have to bomb, and how many innocent people you would have to kill, to kill or capture each forum member.
You know, I don't like being killed or captured. Maybe I should've made a different reference...
September 11'th needed a visual response, and Afganistan wasn't enough. We're drawing these terrorists into Iraq. Not such a good thing if you're an Iraqi, but it beats the alternative.
I MUCH would have preferred if we would have carried out a series of covert assassinations over the past ten years, but our country has trouble doing that because of certain people want us to live up to a standard that no one else subscribes to. That just doesn't work in warfare. On some occassions you need to act badly for the common good.
One of the worst things about Clinton was his lack of response to multiple attacks we suffered under his watch. When he did fight back it was usually just lobbing a few bombs in their general direction. Ironically the only time he started to use serious military action was when he was involved in the Lewinsky mess (coincidence?).
U.S. Cole, what did we REALLY do about that? The first trade center bombing, what did we REALLY do about that? We prosecuted!!!! Our enemy had come to think of us a paper tiger (that's the term THEY used). Kill an American or two and they'll back away.
Bush has it dead on when he says if you harbor terrorism in your country you are a terrorist. Like you pointed out Mz, we can't get these people one on one, they don't wear uniforms, so we have to make it as difficult as possible for them to rest and plan their next attack.
