Ruby wrote:

---

Yes I agree and thought that I might hurt a few people who may have partook of this and we do not know about. I am sorry if that is the case I just have always had a hard time with public nudity in a promiscuous way. But I am not a man and know that men are visually stimulated and women are not. So really this is me- and I should not judge others and do not mean to. I struggle with stuff like everybody I guess. I have no clean past myself! I apologize again. I just think that strippers give us regular girls something unrealistic to compete with, tempt men that do not need to be tempted- they will never go any further and just make me uncomfortable. I love dancing and it is sad that dancing naked brings in such good money and a ballerina not so much.

---

I respect your opinions greatly Ruby, also I would just like to state for the record I do not frequent Strip Clubs just think it is the right of the girls to choose that proffession if they want to.

Not loads no but most city's will have the odd stip club here and there.

I honestly don't think I have really ever heard any of his songs. And I know for damn sure I've never spent any $$$ on his things. /albums, memoriblia, etc...

I can't resist weighing in on this one again, though I have tried. Please don't take this as anger or offense - I just believe we should all speak freely as this is a gift of enlightenment we offer each other. It's not about changing views so much as sharing our broad and diverse perspectives of the world we live in.  A few thoughts...

I don't expect anyone to love or even like MM's appearance or musical stylings - goodness knows I find some of the things he does offensive or objectionable. I believe that the combination of his means to raise controversy heightens negative perceptions. For him, that is the style he chooses to express his thoughts, his beliefs, his core. Like it or not, the freedoms we tout in our society give him the vehicle to do this...and gives us the freedom to express our reaction, our thoughts, and our beliefs. While I don't necessarily agree with all MM's tactics, I must admit the man makes people think and question. I respect that, and his courage to do it in his own way, even if I don't always like the means of delivery.

I do think the man is brilliant, and I think to judge solely on his music or appearance would be an error. Listen to the man talk, when he's just being a person and not a performer. He is intelligent, educated, persuasive, and dynamic. You don't have to agree with the guy, like his performance style, or prefer his appearance to see that. I also think it is good for us to try and stretch our minds, open ourselves to things beyond the limitations of our perceptions. I thought MM was revolting for so long, and then I simply heard him speak in an interview by accident and gained new respect for him.

To criticize his love life is fair, but let's not forget all of the "beautiful people" who we could hold under the same magnifying glass. How many people would think Demi Moore or Cameron Diaz were unethical in their trysts with their significantly younger beaus? How many religious leaders, in nearly every religion, have been called out for their financial extravagances and questionable conduct? I'm not trying to dilute any distaste for MM's behaviors, but just making the point that our ethical focus should be broad enough to see a large world view. The media feeds off the taint of our world, and it is up to each of us to decide what we do with it and learn from it.

So yes, MM looks appalling, sings shocking and objectionable things, and has a screwed up love life. To me, that doesn't mean that the man is incapable of contributing something of value or should be dismissed as a lesser. My 2 cents, thanks for hearing me out!

Ultimo wrote:

---

 

Web, I think taking song lyrics as his personal feelings is dangerous, like many performers, his songs are probably perfomed in character, whether they are healthy lyrics to put out there I'm not so sure but that's his right in your constitiution is it not. So I guess thats up to him.

 

---

Yes, that is his constitutional right. And I think it is also my constitutional right voice what I think about him as well.

Actually, I really couldn't care less what he personally thinks or believes. What worries me is all of his teenage drone followers that think he has the answers to life.

Ok, so he may be in character with his lyrics, but do all of the kids that are sitting in their mommy's basements listening to this stuff understand that he is "just a character"?

Ultimo, by your reply you admit that you are not sure if his lyrics may not be healthy. And weather or not you believe that is your free choice. I'm not saying he doesn't have the right to put his stuff out there. He does have his rights. But with that, what also worries me is that how in this society it is becoming politically incorrect to stand up and say "This is wrong".

That takes us to the popular stance of "whats truth for you may not be truth for me". To those that believe that, I have to ask . . .  is REAL truth to be discovered or created?

OK...I did say that I would weigh in later... now, I have spent much time reading a recent interview that makes me appreciate manson even more....I do believe manson to be a brilliant mind/artist. Will he cure cancer??? will he deliver peace in the middle east??? probably not... will you????..... everybody takes their roles....giving kids the inner strength to question rather than slither off and comit suicide is something of a good..... I know that he has given me the strength to stand up to poeple and say I'm a fan, which I have to face that ostricism alone is a test....now I am going to post an interview.....

Please read, just so you understand a little about where some things come from....

or don't on principle.... but I don't suggest this for no reason.... even I was amazed at this one....



The British Observer has interviewed Marilyn Manson.
He's best known in Britain as the red-lipped, milky-eyed performer who is single-handedly keeping goth culture alive (or at least undead). But in America he's feared as the Satan-worshipper who inspired Columbine. So which is he? Marilyn Manson talks sex, death and make-up with Polly Vernon.



Sunday May 13, 2007
The Observer


Marilyn Manson sits in semi-darkness and profound air-conditioned chilliness, in a suite in London's otherwise bright and temperate Metropolitan Hotel. He has made his room as tomb-like as he can, for two reasons: 1) It allows Manson to wear head-to-toe leather, even though it's an unseasonably warm week in April (outside, the streets of London are filled with breezy, Cornetto-eating young things who swish around in slips of summer dresses, flashing limbs coated in Johnson's Holiday Skin); and 2) It builds on Manson's undead, crypt-frequenting myth. It makes people physically uncomfortable in his presence. It makes them shiver.

He is talking about his new album, which he's in the UK to promote. It's called Eat Me, Drink Me, and it has recurring motifs: death, the devil, mutilation and vampires, mainly. 'I've always thought that association, with the romanticism of vampires, was a bit too obvious a fit for me,' he's saying. His voice is low, halting and purposely monotonous. It's got so much bass in it that it actually makes your ribcage reverberate. Manson's a wordy, circuitous talker; his sentences are rammed with goth-y rhetoric, he's very oblique. He's trying to tell me something, but I'm not quite sure what.
'But a vampire is only something that can be killed by stabbing it through the heart,' he says. 'And that... I guess, that's my weakness.'

Being stabbed through the heart is your weakness?

'Metaphorically.'

Do you mean, er, that love can destroy you?

'Yes. No. But also a vampire is a character that's only at night-time, and ultimately... er, preys on young women. And drinks blood. This idea of consuming someone, whether it's literal or a metaphor, is quite romantic...'

Right.

'You know?'

Not... really.

Marilyn Manson is not scary. He should be. He wears all the trappings of scariness; scariness is his currency. There's his look - he's a long, thin, crone-like streak of goth, with overdyed black hair, geisha-white foundation and bloodred lipstick; he wears contact lenses that turn his eyes a milky, sinister shade of nothing. His interior-design ethic is similarly informed: he famously filled his Hollywood mansion with knick-knacks of supreme ghoulishness - a jacket made from the skin of conjoined lambs, Nazi uniforms, the foetus of an unborn child (which Manson christened Ludwig Von Manson, because he thinks 'it's a lovely name'). There's his art, his act - his wailing, theatrical paeans to death and obscenity, which are called things like Smells Like Children and 'Angel With the Scabbed Wings' and (UK bonus track and my own particular fave) 'Baboon Rape Party'. His videos, which are crammed with (simulated, I think) dark sex acts, suicide and bleeding; and his stage shows, one of which featured the routine leashing and debasement of a particularly slavish fan. There's his assumed name - a merging of Marilyn Monroe and Charles Manson - with its overtones of death and victim and blackest, bleakest celebrity. (He's actually called Brian Warner. Only his mother calls him that now.)

And most of all, there's his reputation. Marilyn Manson's spent the past decade or so routinely (effortlessly, even) shocking the socks off conservative, Christian, right-wing America. In the US he's been vilifi ed as a Satan-worshipping, animal-sacrificing, bisexual corrupter of the youth; he's been banned from performing in several states. He's the US's self-styled 'god of ****'. It all reached a nadir in 1999, when he was blamed for inspiring the Columbine shootings (this is pertinent - we meet 48 hours after news of the campus shooting at Virginia Tech breaks). Manson plays out differently in the UK, where the campness of goths inspires amused affection in the non-goth faction of the public. Indeed, if your teenager starts listening to Manson and dying its hair super-black, there's some cause for celebration. Such introspection and obsession with miserable poetry can lead to stonking exam results.

But no, I'm not scared of Marilyn Manson. Maybe it's because he's 38 years old and it's hard to be truly dangerous when you're middle aged. Or maybe it's because, in the flesh, he doesn't exude any kind of menace. One on one, Manson's calm and self-contained, and sort of benign. I'd been told he's charming - but charm suggests a considered smoothness. What Manson is, in fact, is sweet.

'You,' he says, as I settle myself on to his mini sofa, 'are the first person to sit right next to me.'

What does that tell you, I ask.

'That you're smart,' he says.

Maybe he's a little charming after all.

He's had a tough year. Even in the grand scheme of his darkness, things grew very dark indeed for Manson through 2006. Eat Me, Drink Me might seem like just another 11-song romp through sixth-formish angsts and obsessions. It features songs called 'Just a Car Crash Away' and also 'Mutilation is the Sincerest Form of Flattery' and... oh, you get the idea. But Manson says it's more than that.

'It's why I'm here now,' he says. 'I don't think that I would... [long pause] exist, if it weren't for this record.'

Really?

'Really. I haven't... left my house in a year. I shut myself, literally, out of being with people, and I think I... no, I wouldn't exist without this record.'

You mean, you wouldn't exist as in: you'd have killed yourself?

'To me, it was worse than wanting to die. I didn't want to live. When you want to die, you at least have a goal. You're aiming for something. It's not a good goal, but at least you want something. And you've got anger and fear, but at least you're feeling something. But I wasn't afraid, I didn't have fear, I didn't care and I didn't have hope.'

That sounds like full-throttle depression.

'Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And depression's something that people would... probably assume I've always had an element of it in me. But I know that I've never f... f... I was going to say "felt", but I don't know how I "felt"... I didn't have any feeling - it's a void. But this record, it's a cliche, but this record saved me...'

So you were going to kill yourself?

'Well... yeah, I think that's probably definitely what would have happened.'

It isn't hard to guess what triggered Manson's descent into despair. In December last year, Manson's wife, the burlesque performer Dita Von Teese, filed for divorce. Their marriage had lasted about a year (they got hitched in December 2005, at midnight in a gothic mansion in Tipperary); it followed a four-year relationship. A lot of people were surprised and dismayed by the news. The couple had had good celebrity symmetry. Dita and Marilyn were the Posh and Becks of alternative popular culture. Their alabaster skins and black hair and mutual fondness for bright lipsticks; the suggestion of a flagrant and decadent sex life.

Von Teese has blamed Manson for the demise of their marriage - she cites his alleged infidelities, his 'demons' and the influence of 'Mommie Dearest', Manson's troubled mother. Manson, meanwhile, blames his depression on the marriage.

'Yes, it has an inconvenient, unfortunate parallel to - you know - getting married,' he says.

'I think they ultimately have to be associated. I don't think that the relationship was... something to blame... as much as the, just the, the cliches of marriage. Being expected to change. Change who you are. I started to feel - and maybe this is only how I perceived it, or it's what my ex-wife genuinely expected of me - but to have to change who I am because suddenly I'm supposed to be more responsible or adult or to have to apologise for who I am... It just ultimately wasn't what I was prepared for.'

So the conventions of marriage crushed what had been a healthy relationship?

'Yeah. That and the unfortunate coincidence that her career was really taking off. And I wasn't able to give up what I'm doing and follow her; like she did for me, in the beginning. But I never knew I was... going to be expected to do that. Sacrifice to me is something you do without expecting something in return.'

He pauses. I wonder if, to Manson, sacrifice might actually be something other people are supposed to do for him; and I'm about to ask, then he releases the kind of torrent of bitterness and pain that only comes from someone mired in the hell of divorce, so I don't.

'So to be expected... to... I guess be judged on how much you love someone by... if you don't do... what they did for you... because they did it for you. It got to a point where, where, I didn't know how to win, I didn't know how to explain... to somebody... that I don't... love... me. So for you to think that if I loved you I would change, or I would not be depressed, or I would want to... you know... give up my work for a moment, when I didn't think of it as work... what you create and who you are has to be the same, or both of them die. So that's what almost happened. My creativity died and I nearly died.'

Did he feel betrayed by the way marriage changed his relationship with Dita?

'That was one of the initial emotional confusions and responses. I felt that I was stupid, that I was taken advantage of. At first. But I wasn't, I wasn't taken advantage of. I realised that.'

Is there any good way to divorce?

'I think that somebody's always going to suffer more. And I'd think I hurt her more. But only because she didn't understand the amount of pain I went through before it became apparent to her. She didn't understand that my idea of the relationship was suffering for longer than she knew. And so when things ended equally between us, she might have assumed that I didn't care. Not realising that I had been experiencing it for much longer.'

That's a very female way to work things through.

'Is it?'

Very.

'So I'm a girl? You're saying I'm a girl?' Marilyn Manson laughs; easily, and with feeling. It's unexpected, and lovely.

Like all celebrities, Marilyn Manson is something of a cliche. His psychology is transparent. Brian Warner was a geeky, unfortunate, awkward child, and so he was marginalised by other children. He was sickly, he was lonely. His parents sent him to a strict and religious school, where he developed a major antipathy toward religious dogma - a theme that recurs in his music. He had a difficult relationship with his mother - who, he's realised recently, 'is not just crazy, as I thought she was as a youngster, but is actually mentally ill in a way that's been a big burden on my mind; and also in a way that is hereditary...' - who he tried to strangle when he suspected her of being unfaithful to his father. His grandfather, whom he described in 2000 in his autobiography, The Long Hard Road Out of Hell, as 'the ugliest, darkest, foulest, most depraved figure of my childhood', lived with them; Warner discovered that he secretly wore women's underwear, and that he used to masturbate in the family basement while surrounded by toy trains. Brian Warner, perhaps inevitably, became a self-harming, self-absorbed teenager.

He was born physically unexceptional, so he made himself look exceptional with make-up. He believed himself to be insignificant, so he became a rock star and ensured that millions of people would love him or at least take notice of him. 'I think one of the reasons I got on stage was because I have a hard time relating to people,' he has said in the past. 'It was a matter of being invisible as a kid. I didn't have to create an alter-ego, I had to create an ego.'

Following some fits and starts and changes to the line-up in the band (he once set fire to his drummer), he secured a record deal. In 1996, he scored his breakthrough moment with his album Antichrist Superstar. In 1998, Mechanical Animals sold multiple millions and Manson was officially big time.

Fame, infamy, breakdowns, overdoses, high drama, a broken relationship from yet another raven-haired, red-lipped beauty (actress Rose McGowan) followed; as did the bother over Columbine.

On which: has anyone blamed him for the Virginia Tech shootings yet?

'Not as far as I know. But I wouldn't be surprised if I was blamed. You know, it all seems very manufactured to me.'

In what way?

'In the way that there's candlelight vigils, but I haven't seen anyone crying. Not one single person crying. Someone said to me yesterday: I'm sure you're full of mixed emotions. And I'm not, really. I don't really care. I don't know anyone involved in it. If you lose emotion, and you gain it back, you realise that hate and love are very important to distribute properly. So I'm not going to waste any kind of emotion on things that aren't related to me. It doesn't mean that you have to be insensitive or cold, or have no sort of empathy. It just means that when you do have an emotion, make it extreme.'

For as long as he's been famous, he's been associated with high decadence. Outré sex, hedonism and hard drugs have seemed like integral parts of the Manson experience, as well as major preoccupations creatively. He has regularly simulated sex on stage; he once said (of Dita Von Teese): 'I can't say I haven't seen her tying up a girl on the bus in bondage ropes. I can't say I haven't seen that.'

Is he still sexually decadent?

'Right now?' He laughs. 'Yeah, er, I don't consider myself to be as... open as people might consider me to be. I'm a little more shy. I think that's why you become extroverted, when you're a little bit more shy about who you are. Especially you know, in sexual, er, terms. So I wouldn't say there's a lot of sexual decadence around me.'

That's disappointing. How about more general decadence?

'Er, well, in the fact that I can order caviar and throw it away. That's decadent, isn't it? I did it last night! The record company ...#8594; ...#8592; was paying, though.' He giggles. 'And there was sex involved, and I guess that's decadence.'

Marilyn Manson has fallen in love again, with actor Evan Rachel Wood. She supported him through much of his depression ('although,' he says carefully, in a way that makes me suspect clarity on such things might be important in terms of the divorce wranglings, 'she wasn't my girlfriend at that time') and she served as a creative sounding board through much of the writing of Eat Me, Drink Me. She is mindlessly beautiful - in an interesting way. Oh - and she is 19 years old.

Is he really in love? 'Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely!' Furthermore, he had no issue with falling in love, after his marriage failed. 'It's actually easy for me, because it didn't make me cynical. My current relationship gives me the ability to realise where I've always gone wrong in my life, not just in my divorce. To realise I was always thinking: I wish that my life could be like the movies, like Bonnie and Clyde or The Hunger or Harold and Maude. And... it can be! It maybe just takes somebody else who is as fearless as you. It takes a person who will not hesitate.'

To attain... movie love?

'Yeah. Because now, my only definition of romance is that somebody has to be willing to hold hands and jump off the cliff with you. At that point, you don't want to die any more.'

Movie love, I imagine, is more easily attained with someone as, well, young as Evan Rachel Wood.

'Yes,' he says. 'I think that it helps to match my emotional immaturity. I am always going to be fundamentally immature. As someone being... being Marilyn Manson, I shouldn't be expected to grow up in a conventional way.'

This might also explain why he's drinking absinthe at one in the afternoon - and furthermore, why he maintains (with sixth-former logic) that absinthe does not inhibit his faculties, or his creativity, unlike other alcohols, 'which I despise'.

Sometimes, Marilyn Manson seems like a man in make-up, with a major midlife crisis. A man - furthermore - who doesn't recognise his midlife crisis as such, because he considers himself creatively superior and thus immune to middle age. It would be easy to dismiss him. He talks a lot of nonsense, and his conversation - like his lyrics - sometimes overflows with the kind of rhetoric and flawed sentiment that doesn't stand up to close inspection. Yet I like him. He's funny. He's not beyond laughing at himself (he talks cheerfully about the time Evan Rachel Wood rocked up at his house in heart-shaped sunglasses, 'like in the Kubrick Lolita poster'; I ask if he's ever tried drugs or therapy for his depression, and he tells me, 'Drugs are therapeutic', and giggles).

He has occasional moments of something approaching self-awareness. Even his pretensions - which are manifold and enormous in scale - are somewhat innocent and authentic. Whimsical sixth-form pretensions, basically.

Plus he's got really great skin - you've got to admire that. What's his secret? 'Make your body a place where germs are afraid to live.' We share make-up tips. 'I like Shiseido and Nars,' he says. 'And I liked Mac for a long time, but I thought they might bar me, because my ex-wife is modelling for them now. But they didn't.' They can't stop you buying it, I say. 'Oh, I refuse to buy it! I want it free.' He doesn't take his make-up off before bed. Ugh, I say. He laughs. 'I have to shave, because I am a man - whatever you may think; but that's about the only thing I do that disturbs my make-up.' I tell him I like his lipstick. He says he'll find out the colour. 'It's not my usual. For years I was wearing a very specific wine colour. But this one is my more masculine lipstick, I think. Ha ha!'

Eventually, one of his gothed-up helpers comes into the room and taps me on the elbow because my time is almost up. I get two last questions, though.

Is he happy?

He pauses. It is a loaded question for a goth of his stature. An awful lot of fans depend on him not being happy.

'For the most part, yeah. More so than I was a year ago. And definitely more than I was 10 years ago. I feel, like, being in a position where I simply have no reason to apologise for just being myself, and where I don't have to make what I do an apology for me, or a defence of who I am.'

And does he ever talk to Dita?

'Not recently, but um... yup. I mostly just get yelled at for things that I can't change, and don't want to change any more. No. That's not a fair characterisation of what, um...' He breaks off. Marilyn Manson looks at me through the treble barrier of milky-eyed contact lenses and sunglasses and the gloom of the hotel room. And then he giggles, naughtily. 'But it is pretty true! Ha ha!'

· Eat Me, Drink Me is released on 5 June, UK.

Source: Observer Magazine (UK)

Posted on Monday, May 14 @ 04:31:57 CEST by MissZombilicious






Thank you all for your input


LOL!!!

:)

G-gal, I'm glad you did weigh in.

I do understand your point and what you are saying.

This thread turned the subject into Marilyn Manson. So that is who I'm talking and asking about. If we want to discuss a "Christian" leader who squandered millions of dollars from people, then bring it up and I will happily talk about how wrong I think was of him to do that too. Just because I have a negative opinion of Marilyn does not mean that I think he's worse than every other "wrong" thing in this world. But he became the subject so that is who I'm discussing.

garougal wrote:

---

So yes, MM looks appalling, sings shocking and objectionable things, and has a screwed up love life. To me, that doesn't mean that the man is incapable of contributing something of value or should be dismissed as a lesser. My 2 cents, thanks for hearing me out!

---

My first post in this thread was that I admit that I don't know any more about him than his steryotype. That is why I asked the question, and why I went looking for more information. I couldn't find much about the REAL man so I looked into his lyrics for something to an insight of who he is. I'm not finding anything close to what I could consider brilliant in his lyrics. Everything I'm seeing is quite cold and dark.

So, if he is contributing something of "value", my question still stands, what value is he contributing? What positive thing or things is coming from him?

If "making us think" makes him brilliant, well thats not enough for me. We should all be thinking anyway.

Ok, Willy . . . I read the interview.

So what?

What is so amazing about it to you?

He was really depressed. He didn't want to live. He felt his life was empty. I see that as someone who is really sad and needs help rather than admiration.

He divorced his wife and they still fight. Thats real positive.

He's in love again and now doesn't want to kill himself. He decided to live here with us a little longer.

"it's what my ex-wife genuinely expected of me - but to have to change who I am because suddenly I'm supposed to be more responsible or adult or to have to apologise for who I am... It just ultimately wasn't what I was prepared for."

Yeah, well too bad. We get older and are expected to show some responsibility and begin to act like adults Wah. So you (edit: meaning Marilyn) want to be immature and childish the rest of your life. Sure, you're free to do that, but 38 year old children don't impress me much. Sorry.


Yeah. That and the unfortunate coincidence that her career was really taking off. And I wasn't able to give up what I'm doing and follow her; like she did for me, in the beginning.
Yeah, its really too bad her career was taking off. Not only do you (Marilyn) chose to be childish, but selfish as well.

His thoughts on the Virginia Tech shootings: "I don't really care."
What a guy.

So, please, what deep, philosophical insights did I miss here? Did I miss something between the incomplete sentences and disconnected thoughts that I should find amazing and brilliant?

How is Marilyn trying to get teens to think? The medium to these teens is his music. What in his music makes teens think? Does his music call them to actually "think" and make good decisions that will be good for them? If so, please point me toward one such song. All I see is him calling for hatred, defiance, and rebellion of anything considered by our society as "good". How is that asking kids to think?

Willy, you have made a big deal about how you are so against hatred and only want the positive in your life. What is positive about this guy?

I read what you provided. Weather you ask or not, I'm not ashamed to admit that to me he appears to to be a sad, disturbed, little child in an adult's body. What interests me about that, is why anyone would admire and look up to him.

I'm not asking you to convince me to like him. I'm simply asking, what makes him so brilliant and such a great roll model and positive influence in your life?

If you think about that question and can't come up with a real answer, I won't ask you to admit that either. LOL !!!!!!!




-- Edited by WebGuy at 14:07, 2007-05-24

web, some things are viewed one way, and the same things can be edited and picked apart to seem to mean something else.... you see the interview the way you want to edit it, and I find it a great insight to a man who is inspired anew .

Don't feel that way Ggal- although I can't tell you how to feel. But I like serious and goofy conversations and I think we are all friends here and I know in real life I talk with my friends about everything and hate that we can't do that here always.
Tones are hard to percieve online, but I think JR said it best - we should BE ABLE TO AGREE TO DISAGREE. If we all did that the world would be so peaceful!


I think I am gonna request some Lennon!

garougal wrote:

---

I'm being honest, it's teetering on the edge of being insulting.

---

I'm sorry, G-Gal. I do not intend to insult you, Willy, or anyone else who is a Manson fan.

I'd never really paid much attention to the guy myself. Because of this discussion, I decided to try to find more info on him and see if my prejudices are true. In doing so, I find myself bing quite insulted and offended by his lyrics.

The first question I asked was to any Manson fan in what is so inspiring about him or his music. I personally don't see anything positive there so I'm curious what someone else might see in it. Yes, I got caught up and went overboard in trying to get someone to answer that question directly.

My intent was not to insult you. But, I can see why you would feel that way. I apologize if my distaste for what he stands for made it feel that it was also pointed toward you.

 

Yeah G-Gal.

There's no hostility here, atleast not on my part.

Yeesh, you should come into the studio and watch JD & I around election time.  We both get red-faced, with veins popping out in our necks and forehead, arguing for an hour straight.

Then we shake hands and have a beer. 

Online is hard sometimes.  You're trying to put your thoughts into words, and in your mind you know the tone and the inflections that go with it, but the reader doesn't.

My last thought on MM is this, and if I'm wrong, please let me know.

Actually, I'll honor G-Gals wish and not even give my last thought.  I just ask that people respect my wishes and not try to tell me I need to look deeper into someone who chooses to project such a negative image.

holy cow!
I thought this thread was about charles manson?? who would snap M Manson's neck, and yours, and yours, and yours if he were let out???

lets not mix the worlds of for-profit psuedo-evil entertainment for the money-spending alientated who are seeking a collective self-identity through rock and roll darkness, with that of outright murderous psychosis; both of which are wonderfully covered as if they are equal by the mainstream media. Because any bad news is good news.
 
We've been asked by hippies, then by bumper stickers, and then by maintstream media to question authority. the time has come for us to question those who question us to question authority.