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Post Info TOPIC: What If Gas Cost $10 a Gallon?


Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult

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What If Gas Cost $10 a Gallon?


Forget pizza delivery. And cheap airfares. And bottled water. In fact, forget a way of life that looks much like today's. But would that be so bad?

By Shirley Skeel

Editor's note: This is one in an occasional series of financial what-ifs.

In four years, U.S. gas prices have doubled to more than $3.70 a gallon, and crude oil has tripled to around $125 a barrel. Allowing for inflation, that's higher than prices were during the 197883 oil shock that triggered a recession and sky-high interest rates. But . . .

What if gas cost $10 a gallon?


Thousands of truckers would go bankrupt. Airplanes would sit idle in hangars. Restaurants and stores would shut down. Car-pooling, hybrid vehicles, scooters and inline skates would swing into vogue. And telecommuting, rooftop vegetable gardens, home cooking and recycling would proliferate.

Yes, it would be painful. At $10 a gallon, filling a Ford Explorer could cost $225. Even gassing up a Honda Civic could set you back $132.

And suddenly the bus wouldn't look so bad.

A large recession, not a depression

According to Todd Hale, a senior vice president for consumer researcher Nielsen, at $10 a gallon, the average family's gas bill would leap from 16% of its retail spending to about 40%. People would drive less, yes. But many have to drive to work or the supermarket, and they'd cough up the cash -- screaming all the way -- and cut back elsewhere.

Businesses and farmers, meantime, would be squeezed as the costs of transport, petrochemical fertilizers and plastics rose. If an oil shock came quickly, sending gas to $10 a gallon and oil to roughly $350 a barrel, the chain reaction of spiraling prices and sliced consumer demand would hit us hard.

"It would be a large recession, not a depression," says Michael Englund, the chief economist for Action Economics in Boulder, Colo. That would mean tight budgets and unemployment until the economy adapted and growth returned.


Here are some likely effects:
  • Consumer spending on eating out, clothing, electronics, vacations and other little luxuries would fall sharply. A Nielsen study found that even at recent gas prices, 41% of consumers were eating out less. In total, 18% of those surveyed were cutting spending to a "great degree." That would bruise companies such as Applebee's, Macy's, Gap, Best Buy and others. But discount retailers, particularly those selling food and gas, could do relatively well. Think Costco, Wal-Mart and McDonald's.

 


  • We'd see "a lot of parked planes," says Bill Swelbar, an air transport engineer for the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. The U.S. airline industry pays out $465 million in fuel costs for every $1 rise in oil. At $350-a-barrel oil, the industry would pay more than $100 billion extra, almost as much as last year's total airfare sales. Even if airlines ratcheted up fares 50%, half of their airplanes would be grounded because they'd be too expensive to fly, Swelbar reckons.

 

  • Many independent truckers, who pay for their own fuel, would go bankrupt as their costs soared and shippers switched to barges and trains. Taxis and FedEx would be strictly for the well-heeled. And home pizza deliveries would cease. Pizza delivery drivers also pay for their own gas. "It'd be brutal," says Joseph Miller, an assistant manager at a Domino's Pizza in Seattle. "I would think we wouldn't have any drivers."

 

  • Food prices could jump by a third or more, experts estimate. About 80 cents of the $4.50 retail cost of a box of cornflakes goes to transport it, says Dan Basse, the president of AgResource, a Chicago research company. On top of that, there's the cost of fertilizers to grow the corn and diesel for farm equipment. In 2005, transportation and energy made up 8.5% of all retail food costs, but energy was far cheaper then. As $10 gas pushed up food prices, pinched consumers would give up pricey fresh meat and vegetables for cheap pastas and oils. Ranchers and dairies with energy-hungry milking barns would struggle. And cities might sprout to life as people planted vegetable gardens on their roofs and balconies and in vacant lots.

 

  • Plastics for appliances, packaging, pacemakers and myriad other products would jump in price as the natural gas that plastic is made with rose in value alongside oil. Bill Wood, the president of Mountaintop Economics and Research in Massachusetts, says shoppers would have a choice: "Paper or paper?" Small plastic bottles of water would disappear. Glass and metal containers would make a comeback. And recycling would explode. Families might even have nine bins in the hall to separate their trash, as they do in Japan, where consumer recycling tops 90%.

 

  • As drivers began to switch to 100-mile-per-gallon plug-in hybrid cars (already expected to launch by 2010), the electricity grid could come under strain. Theoretically, if everyone had one and plugged it in at night, the grid could handle 84% of the nation's car fleet. But to avoid the risk of city brownouts, the grid capacity would have to rise. Solar, wave and wind power would ramp up. Giant solar thermal power plants, which use mirrors to concentrate the sun's energy, would be built. But in the rush to get power, we'd probably also step up the use of cheap, dirty coal (50% of our electricity generation now). Even nuclear power (21%) could be considered anew.

 

  • Resistance to drilling for oil in Alaska's Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and off California would shrink. Environmentalists might stand their ground. But as James Williams, an energy economist for WTRG Economics in Arkansas, says, "Let's put it this way: Y'all wanna drive?" Oil reserves in both areas are thought to be more than 10 billion barrels, double the proven reserves in Texas. That would help feed America's 21-million-barrel-a-day appetite.


After the hurt, some benefits


There'd be other ramifications, too. The federal government's deficit would balloon as it paid for energy incentives and social welfare. We could even see civil unrest as the poor scrambled to survive.

Suburbanites would crowd into urban town houses to avoid costly commutes, and working from home would become common. Eventually, public transportation might even improve.

Some of these things, such as small cars and excellent public transportation, are already entrenched in Europe and Japan. Gas prices there are the equivalent of $8 to $10 a gallon, largely because of high taxes. They live with it. We could, too.

In the longer term, we might even be better off.

As the economy adjusted to functioning with new energy sources and more-efficient energy use, jobs in engineering, science, alternative energy and conservation would boom.

Matthew Simmons, the founder of investment bank Simmons & Company International in Houston, says he thinks a good slice of the hundreds of billions of dollars that would flow to oil-producing nations would filter back to the U.S. He believes the oil industry infrastructure is aging and America would be called on to help.

"We'd have a more engineer, blue-collar, scientific world, versus the Starbucks, high-tech business that we've been in," he says. Not to mention that America's Achilles' heel -- its dependency on foreign oil for 60% of its needs -- would finally have a remedy. A painful one, but effective.

Will gas cost $10 a gallon anytime soon?

It's unlikely, though short-term expectations of $4 or even $5 gas this year are increasingly common.

But most oil specialists believe that in the near term, $10 gas couldn't happen -- or that if oil hit $350 a barrel through some Middle East disaster, it would be short-lived. They say demand would fall sharply, bringing oil prices back down. Adam Sieminski, the chief energy economist with Deutsche Bank in Washington, D.C., puts the probability at less than 3%.

Richard Heinberg, a senior fellow at the nonprofit Post Carbon Institute in Sebastopol, Calif., disagrees. He believes it could happen within five years (of course, $10 likely would be worth less then).

More than half of the world's oil producers, including the U.S., Britain, Mexico, Venezuela and Russia, are seeing production decline, Heinberg says. Meanwhile, demand is growing at 1.5% to 2% a year. Heinberg says the OPEC countries need their reserves to meet booming demand at home and that at some point, oil will become scarce.

The result: Prices will shoot up.



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Chocolate Pip Cookie

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Welcome to my world of gas prices cry.gif

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Really?!? That bad?!?

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Chocolate Pip Cookie

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Yes...because there is a fuel tax added onto the gas price by the government and this is what horrifies people here when they go abroad and see the prices paid elsewhere...

I currently pay £1.09/litre which is about £4.95/gallon, which is about $9.90/gallon

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Wow! that's just insanely expensive!

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Oil execs defend huge profits before Senate

Laws of supply and demand are at work, Shell chairman explains

APTRANS.gif

updated 52 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - Top executives of the five largest oil companies tried to shift anger over high prices to a debate over supplies Wednesday, leading a senator to accuse them of acting like hapless victims while racking up record profits.

Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., told the executives theres a disconnect between normal supply and demand and the skyrocketing price of oil surpassing $130 a barrel even as the oil leaders testified that the industry has yet to explain.

J. Stephen Simon, executive vice president of Exxon Mobil Corp., said profits have been huge in absolute terms but must be viewed in the context of the massive scale of the industry. He also said high earnings are needed in the current up cycle to pay for investments in the long term when profits will be down.

Current up cycle, thats a nice term, replied Leahy with sarcasm, when people cant afford to go to work because gasoline is costing close to $4 a gallon.

He asked Simon what his total compensation was at Exxon, a company that made $40 billion last year. Simon replied it was $12.5 million annually.

Two other executives, John Lowe, executive vice president of ConocoPhillips Co., said he didnt recall his total compensations as did Peter Robertson, vice chairman of Chevron Corp. John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co., said his was about $2.2 million but was not among the top five salaries at his companys international parent. Robert Malone, chairman of BP America Inc., put his compensation at in excess of $2 million.

Sen. Arlen Specter, R-Pa., said Exxons annual profits increased from $11.5 billion to $40.6 billion in the past five years and there was no explanation for why profits have gone up so high when the consumer is suffering so much.

The five companies earned $36 billion in the first quarter of this year.

The executives, appearing under oath before the Senate Judiciary Committee, said they know high prices are hurting people, but they said the cause is not company profits but global supply and demand. And they sought to use their appearance before Congress to argue against new taxes on their industry

I urge you to resist these punitive policies, said Hofmeister.

Senate Democrats recently announced an energy package that would tax windfall profits of the five companies. That might have public appeal, Lowe told the senators, but oil companies should not be viewed as a scapegoat for high prices.

That was not what many senators wanted to hear.

You have just a litany of complaints that youre all just hapless victims of a system, Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., told the executives. Yet you rack up record profits ... quarter after quarter after quarter.

Im sorry to sound like a victim. I dont feel like a victim at all, replied Robertson of Chevron, saying that he was proud of his companys investments in future supply.

Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill, accused the corporate executives of ignoring the plight of people suffering because of high energy prices. Where is your corporate conscience? he asked them.

The issue is simple, said Leahy. People we represent are hurting, the companies you represent are profiting.



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Pip: That's terrible. I don't see how you can afford that.

What other kinds of taxes do you have there? Do you (like us) have property taxes, sales tax, income tax, and separate auto/license taxes as well?





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Cuff 'Em N' Stuff 'Em

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I'm fuming about gas prices... I can't afford gas, and I drive a small foreign job car. I can't image if I drove an SUV.....

I wanted to buy a scooter but the weather here is so cold so often that I wouldn't get much use out of it. I'd get 4 months out of the year out of it!

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Why aren't we drilling in Anwr? China is drilling off the coast of Cuba. That could be oil going toward our move to energy independence. If Congress really wanted to do the nation good open up our own land for exploration. Of course this could have been done under Reagan but it was voted down. We could already be using our own oil but now it will be 10 years before we would see anything from our own land. Where is Teddy Roosevelt when you need him?

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Darth Raydar

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http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1571/is_22_17/ai_75435167

Check out this article. It dates back to 2001.

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WebGuy wrote:


Pip: That's terrible. I don't see how you can afford that.

What other kinds of taxes do you have there? Do you (like us) have property taxes, sales tax, income tax, and separate auto/license taxes as well?




Lol, well the wages are taxed...
the car neads a tax disc ("vehicle excise duty") - this costs between $240-$370 per year (for cars registered before 2001)
For newer cars it depends on vehicle emissions and can range from $70-$800.
Motorbikes are from $30-$132

You can buy your tax disc annually or get one every 6 months (but this is slightly more expensive)

This is an example of a car tax disc, a diferent colour is issued each year:
taxDisc.jpg
And it is displayed in your windscreen on the kerb side:
upload-17068021-Cars%20045.jpg

We have sales tax - it's known as VAT (Value Added Tax)
In the States we see the Sales Tax being added on to the shelf price when you get to the till, The main difference in the UK is that it is usually included in the shelf price so if it says it is £9.99 then that is what we pay. The rate is 17.5%
There are some things that are zero %:
(taken from http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/vat-introduction.htm#2 )
      

Rates of VAT

Different VAT rates apply to different goods and services. Currently there are three rates:

  • standard rate - 17.5 per cent
  • reduced rate - 5 per cent
  • zero rate - 0 per cent

The standard rate of VAT is the default rate for goods and services unless specified otherwise.

Examples of reduced rate items include:

  • domestic fuel and power
  • installation of energy-saving materials
  • residential conversions
  • women's sanitary products
  • children's car seats

Examples of zero-rated items include food - but not meals in restaurants or hot takeaways

  • books and newspapers
  • children's clothing and shoes
  • public transport

I can't pretend to understand taxation fully...and as for property I am a bit clueless...I know you do have to pay some sorts of taxes on the property when you buy it.

There is also an annual "council tax" which is banded depending on the size/type of house or flat you live in...and each council sets their own rate as it's how they raise funds for the police/fire services.garbage collection and loads of other stuff.
This can usually be paid over 10 months...we personally pay just over $250 a month, but were paying a lot less in our previous home. Someone living in a similar house in another county however could be paying more or less than us as each council has it's own rates...
There are also some exemptions and there is a council tax benefit too for those less fortunate than us (and sometimes less inclined to work - but that's another rant lol)



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Thanks, Pip.

So your "tax disc" is about the same as our motor vehicle fees. Ours also vary according to the age and value of the vehicle. Trucks pay more than cars because of the extra weight being harder on the roads. Our "disc" is a rectangle sticker that you put on your license plate.

I forgot about your VAT. Wow, thats even about 10% higher than our sales taxes. I think the only thing that doesn't have sales tax here is food.

It sounds like your "council tax" is similar to our "property tax". Property taxes here are only collected if you own property. If you rent, the landlord pays those taxes. Our property tax is based on the value of the home or land. For me personally, our property tax on our house is about $1,500/year. That also varies according to where the property is. Properties within city limits pay more property tax than those outside the city. The additional city part goes for things like city water, sewer, city police, etc.

There are extra taxes on businesses but the one that really upsets me most is "personal property" tax. That is basically a tax on tools and equipment that is used to do business". It is not a large tax, but it just ticks me off. If I go buy a new power saw for my woodworking business so I can hopefully make some money, I have to pay a "personal property" tax on that saw. It bugs me because I'm using that equipment to make money which I'm taxed on as "income tax". Isn't that enough?



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Oh, and your "council tax" that goes to the less fortunate . . . here, its called "welfare".

I have rants about that too. I'm all for it in theory, as some people just need help now and then. Its the ones that don't even try or ever plan to work and that know the system inside and out to maximize benefits that I say its time to cut them off.

I didn't realize how it was until I went as a leader with our youth group on a mission's trip to a poor area of Kentucky one year.

I was surprised to see how many people are living on the system with no plans, hopes, or desire to change it. I remember this one family that we were building a deck for, had three generations living in a trailer. The thing that got me is that the kids were being taught that this is how life is. You sit on your couch and play X-Box all day while waiting for your government check to arrive in the mail. Again, I'm all for helping people in need, but I couldn't understand the attitude how it was not a "between jobs" or temporary thing. For some being "less fortunate" really is a way of life and they prefer it that way because its easier than workin'.



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I agree 100 percent Weberino! There is nothing I hate worse than being in the check out line at the grocery store behind someone that pays for there food (which is usually better than the stuff I get) with their welfare card and then pays for their 24 pack of beer and carton of cigarettes with the little money they do have.

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I agree with you there, Web. For unemployment compensation, you have to apply to 3 jobs a week. Why isn't it the same with welfare?

I think a lot of it has to do with the kids, theoretically that's who the money is for. This may sound harsh, but if someone can't afford their kids, why can't the kids go to someone who can afford to take care of them? They'd have a better life. In most cases, these people shouldn't have kids in the first place, but most of these people aren't making responsible decisions to begin with either.

And then there's the theory that some people have kids just to get the welfare money. I can see how that happens. In college I was making $5.15 an hour and had to have a medical procedure done that I didn't have the money for. I applied for assistance for these particular medical bills, and was denied because I 1) made too much (yep, $5.15 an hour was too much), and 2) wasn't pregnant and didn't have kids.

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If gas cost $10, it would get me out walking more often, which would be a good thing. A necessary p.i.a. but beneficial health wise.

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Chocolate Pip Cookie

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How much do cigarettes cost over there?
I think here they would equate to $10 for a pack of 20...cigarettes and booze have a "tax" on them too

It's ironic that the "poorer" people seem to be, the more they smoke...

I like the idea of a welfare card to get stuff with though, here all the welfare benefits are in cash..so you nw where that goes...on the booze and fags!

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pipsar6 wrote:

How much do cigarettes cost over there?
I think here they would equate to $10 for a pack of 20...cigarettes and booze have a "tax" on them too

It's ironic that the "poorer" people seem to be, the more they smoke...

I like the idea of a welfare card to get stuff with though, here all the welfare benefits are in cash..so you nw where that goes...on the booze and fags!






Disclosure: By fags she means cigarettes! laughing.gif

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Grand Poobah

    



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Sparky wrote:

 

pipsar6 wrote:

How much do cigarettes cost over there?
I think here they would equate to $10 for a pack of 20...cigarettes and booze have a "tax" on them too

It's ironic that the "poorer" people seem to be, the more they smoke...

I like the idea of a welfare card to get stuff with though, here all the welfare benefits are in cash..so you nw where that goes...on the booze and fags!




 



Disclosure: By fags she means cigarettes! laughing.gif

 




 lol maybe over on that side of the big pond.smile



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Chocolate Pip Cookie

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LOL...yay I forgot you don't use fags for cigarettes and yes I do kow what you mean lol...laughing.gif
(Thanks JD)

-- Edited by pipsar6 at 09:15, 2008-05-24

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