Atheist Buses! - Freeze-Frame Radio

Ultimo · King of the Ring

Atheist Buses!

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

interesting enough. But I think it MIGHT. MIGHT encourage a sort of hedonistic behavior which could be personally and therefore socially damaging. Almost like the 1 commandment of the Satanists- "Do what thou will...".

Jeremy Riggs · 2011 Super Bowl Champions!

I find the use of the word "probably" interesting.

They're asking you to bet an awful lot on "probably".

Ultimo · King of the Ring

I don't like the wording 'probably', I wish they had gone a bit stronger, but I just hope it gets people thinking about the possibility, alot of people don't even realise they have a choice.

disco strangler · Smiles everyone, smiles!

for people who are committed (either way) there isn't a choice...

the use of the word "probably" tells me that the professor is "probably" riding the fence on the subject...

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

So, what's the point?

I mean, us Christians share the gospel with people because #1, we believe God commands us to do that, and #2 we care for people and believe people are better off knowing the God we believe in.

So, why would a athiest group pay money for such advertisements? I think most people know they have the choice if they are going to believe God exists or not. I don't see the reasoning behind these signs.?.?

confuzzed · Permanent State of Confusion

Definitely is a different tactic.

Jeremy Riggs · 2011 Super Bowl Champions!

Yeah, I've never understood the point of it either.

It's not like someone who believes in God is going to see it and say "oh, you mean I don't have to? Gosh, then I guess I don't!"

They don't put their organization name on the sign, so I assume it's not a fund-raising ploy.

I have no idea why someone would spend so much money on that campaign.

garougal · Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult

When I read it, I got the impression that it was a campaign to share a different viewpoint, a means to be heard and not an attempt at conversion. I would guess it is about expressing one philosophy on life.

Mad Mema · Bad Biker Granny

My first reaction would be to laugh. The use of "probably" more than likely was a compromise to get the bus company to allow the adverts to be displayed. I'd imagine if the statement were stronger, they would be hearing about it in no uncertain terms.

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

The article said, "as an antidote to posters put up by religious groups which they claimed were "threatening eternal damnation" to non-believers." (I wish I knew exactly what the other posters said.)

I don't see anything wrong with "probably." I can't say for sure that there is or is not a god. In fact, my personal beliefs lie somewhere in between. I don't consider myself atheist, I consider myself agnostic because I believe that God is not a spiritual entity or entities or an omnipotent presence, but I do believe that there is some sort of spiritual life force.

At any rate, you can't make someone believe in one thing over another, and a poster's probably not going to make a difference one way or another. I'd rather see a poster saying, "No matter what you believe, let's just live peacefully together." I'm probably taking this the way I want to see it, but "Stop worrying and be happy," seems pretty close to that.

Jeremy Riggs · 2011 Super Bowl Champions!

But these folks ARE athiest. So I would expect it to say there IS no God, not there probably is no God.

It just seems to me if you're gonna make a statement then make it. Why hedge your bets?

-- Edited by Jeremy Riggs at 12:48, 2009-01-06

Jeremy Riggs · 2011 Super Bowl Champions!

Although I think Mema has the answer. The bus company probably wouldn't accept something so blunt.

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

Jeremy Riggs wrote:

But these folks ARE athiest. So I would expect it to say there IS no good, not there probably is no good.

It just seems to me if you're gonna make a statement then make it. Why hedge your bets?

Judging from the article, I think the campaign is aimed at the undecideds, not at fellow atheists. Hence, the "probably."

If I were to guess at another way to word it, I would say, "If you don't know whether or not there is a God, don't worry about it and just be happy, as opposed to stressing over eternal damnation."

-- Edited by MzHartz at 12:51, 2009-01-06

Jeremy Riggs · 2011 Super Bowl Champions!

lol. Ok. I give up, you're PROBABLY right.

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

Jeremy Riggs wrote:

lol. Ok. I give up, you're PROBABLY right.

LOL, I'll take it! ;)

garougal · Cleverly Disguised As A Responsible Adult

Jeremy Riggs wrote:

lol. Ok. I give up, you're PROBABLY right.

She probably is, so now...stop worrying and go enjoy your life.

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

I was thinking more about this over lunch.

I think they used the word "probably" because if it said "There Is No God" that is just asking for a challenge. I know I would be like "What? There is no God? Really? Show me. Prove it."

That leaves me seeing two possibilities for the reasoning behind this . . .

1. I can take at face value. This is trying to help people quit stressing over what is "right" or "good" and just do what you want, and be happy. Don't worry about if your actions are "right" or "good", if its legal, and you want to do it, do it.

If thats the case, then that is the most ignorant thing I've ever seen anyone take a stance on. I mean really, does this world have a problem with too many people trying to do what is "right"? Is is really better if those of us who do, quit thinking about what might be "good" according to God's standards and just all do what we want? Is that going to make our world a better place to live?

2. Its meant to be an attack on God. Nothing more than that.

If that is the case, and this is what I believe it to be, that leaves me with another question. Why would a group pay this amount of money to promote a fight against something they don't believe exists? If that is the case, then it makes me wonder just exactly who they are trying to convince that God doesn't exist . . . themselves maybe? If they can convince more people that there is no God they will feel safer in bigger numbers?

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

Web, someone could misinterpret your first point to say that someone who doesn't believe in God won't do the right thing or isn't a good person.

I think many atheists believe that they can do the right thing and be a good person without needing to be threatened by eternal damnation. That they can do the right thing because they are a good person as opposed to that they have to do the right thing or else they will be punished.

On the second point, I agree that there probably is a bit of an attack with these posters. But I don't think it's an attack on God, I think it's a rebuttal for another poster as mentioned in the article.

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

As an aside, I propose a challenge. This is a hypothetical question, just think about it, there's no need to answer here.

When thinking about other people's religion, what is your stance? Is it?:

Everyone should believe in my God(s).

Everyone should realize that there is no God(s).

Everyone has the choice to choose what God(s) to follow, or none at all, as long as they don't impose their beliefs on others.

Or is there a viewpoint that I'm missing?

------

Another question:

What if the sign had just said, "Stop worrying and just be happy." with no mention of religion. How would you have interpreted that?

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

MzHartz wrote:

Web, someone could misinterpret your first point to say that someone who doesn't believe in God won't do the right thing or isn't a good person.

Sure, some could chose to think thats what I meant, but that would be a pretty major assumption that I believe an athiest can't do something good or will always do the wrong thing.

It seems pretty to clear to me . . .

"Stop Worrying". Stop worrying about what, eternal damnation?

If so,

What do most people think decides their eternal damnation? Weather or not they are a good person?

If so,

Then, its saying, because there is no God, you don't have to worry about being a good person. No, go do what you want and be happy.

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

Here's my viewpoint which you didn't list:

Everyone has the choice to choose what God(s) to follow, or none at all . . . but yet its still my responsibility to tell them about my God in case they've never heard about what He has to offer them.

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

MzHartz wrote:

Another question:

What if the sign had just said, "Stop worrying and just be happy." with no mention of religion. How would you have interpreted that?

I would have looked at that as "ok, whatever . . . that's pretty vague. I guess we're just supposed to turn off our concerns and cares and just go through life with a stupid smile on our faces."

The fact that they specifically called out God in the message adds A LOT of implications to the meaning.

Ultimo · King of the Ring

WebGuy wrote:

Here's my viewpoint which you didn't list:

Everyone has the choice to choose what God(s) to follow, or none at all . . . but yet its still my responsibility to tell them about my God in case they've never heard about what He has to offer them.

I take a simillar approach to atheism, I respect peoples right to believe in what ever supernatural deity they wish but I also feel an obligation to tell them that the deity is non existent.

-- Edited by Ultimo at 13:59, 2009-01-06

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

ultimo,
I studied philosophy in college- as a minor- and athiesm was a point of view we studied. But one thing that didn't convince me entirely was the salience we see in the things of the universe- the fact that the notions like space and time, beginning, middle, end, birth, growth, death happen... I felt that something- god, mystic law, governed the ordering of things in the universe- its too precise I feel to be ungoverned by something.

How do athiests feel about that governance? Or is the universe seen as random chance?

Also, whenever I want to feel the presence of a god, or spiritual force, I go hug a tree. But I got to look out for bugs when I do that too.

WebGuy · Doesn't Do Windows

Ultimo wrote:

I take a simillar approach to atheism, I respect peoples right to believe in what ever supernatural deity they wish but I also feel an obligation to tell them that the deity is non existent.

-- Edited by Ultimo at 13:59, 2009-01-06

And that is perfectly acceptable to me, but yet I still see on major difference . . .

What if you're right and I'm wrong? If you're right, how has my being a Christian hurt me? Yes, I wasted a bunch of time following a non-existant God. I was a fool in following something that wasn't real. If God doesn't exist, your telling me or not makes no difference to my life.

But, what if I'm right and you're wrong? What if God does exist? You've made your choice and I respect that and will not harrass you about it. My worry is my other friend who never really made a decision either way. I don't want my friend's soul spending eternity separated from God and have him wondering why his buddy never explained to him what God's about. If God does exist, my tellling you or not could make a HUGE difference for your eternity.

Ultimo · King of the Ring

I don't claim to be anywhere near as educated as anyone here, I totally understand your philosophical point of view, but philosophy doesn't come into the equation for me, I look at these things from a scientific point of view, and yeah random chance is eactly how it all happened, it's hard to believe, but that's what the evidence shows. Don't get me wrong though I know there are things in this world that have yet to be explained but look back at things people used to believe that we now know for a fact are completely wrong... flat earth for instance...

JD The Jazz Doctor · Grand Poobah

lol I miss reading about the old testiment god- the god of hellfire and brimstone, like in the bible of St James. He'll throw lightning bolts at you if you eat pork etc....that bad-ass is just what this world needs these days I think.

Ultimo · King of the Ring

WebGuy wrote:
Ultimo wrote:

I take a simillar approach to atheism, I respect peoples right to believe in what ever supernatural deity they wish but I also feel an obligation to tell them that the deity is non existent.

-- Edited by Ultimo at 13:59, 2009-01-06

And that is perfectly acceptable to me, but yet I still see on major difference . . .

What if you're right and I'm wrong? If you're right, how has my being a Christian hurt me? Yes, I wasted a bunch of time following a non-existant God. I was a fool in following something that wasn't real. If God doesn't exist, your telling me or not makes no difference to my life.

But, what if I'm right and you're wrong? What if God does exist? You've made your choice and I respect that and will not harrass you about it. My worry is my other friend who never really made a decision either way. I don't want my friend's soul spending eternity separated from God and have him wondering why his buddy never explained to him what God's about. If God does exist, my tellling you or not could make a HUGE difference for your eternity.

I see your point Web, and for most people religion gives them alot, ethical teachings, moral guidelines, a sense of community and the reassurance of an afterlife, however some take religion and use it as an excuse for hatred towards others and causes them to take drastic actions in the name of something we have no hard evidence of.

As an atheist I can still live my life with morals and ethics, and am happy in the knowledge that this is the only life I have to live and I take joy in everything in my life because of that.

MzHartz · Permanent Vacation

WebGuy wrote:

MzHartz wrote:

Web, someone could misinterpret your first point to say that someone who doesn't believe in God won't do the right thing or isn't a good person.

Sure, some could chose to think thats what I meant, but that would be a pretty major assumption that I believe an athiest can't do something good or will always do the wrong thing.

It seems pretty to clear to me . . .

"Stop Worrying". Stop worrying about what, eternal damnation?

If so,

What do most people think decides their eternal damnation? Weather or not they are a good person?

If so,

Then, its saying, because there is no God, you don't have to worry about being a good person. No, go do what you want and be happy.

I think I see the difference. What do atheists think decides their eternal damnation? They don't believe in eternal damnation. This is it. Once you're dead, you're gone. This is your only chance. So make the most of it and be happy.

Doing what you want and being happy aren't necessarily the same thing. Can't someone not worry about eternal damnation, be happy, yet still be a good person?

There's also another viewpoint here that I think many Christians have never experienced. I would guess that the poster is assuming that people know this situation, when many haven't. Many atheist, or non-Christians, have been told they are going to burn in hell. That they are bad people because they don't believe in God. Even though that person doesn't believe in hell, that still hurts. This comes from friends and family members, many with good intentions-- Wait, let me rephrase this: I have been told that I'm damned. That I'm a bad person because I don't believe in God. I've been told this by friends and relatives that really do have the best intentions. But it still hurts. I still worry about it. I still cry. I tried to believe in God, I went to church, but in my heart I don't believe. I can't make myself believe. So I hide it. I don't let most people know my beliefs and let them assume I believe the same thing they do. And I worry when people find out. And I'm relieved when I'm around someone who understands. Who says it's okay that I have my own beliefs. That I don't have to worry, that I can just be happy.

An analogy: Have you even been in a room full of democrats and they started talking politics? Were you the only republican there? Would you feel lonely? Would you feel threatened? When another person came up and said, "Hey, I'm a republican too," would you feel relieved?