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Post Info TOPIC: Setting ourselve up for failure? What's your take?
Jeremy Riggs


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Setting ourselve up for failure? What's your take?
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I'm curious what everyone else thinks about this.

The feds are talking about jacking up cigarette taxes by over 150% from thirty some cents a pack to a dollar.

At the same time our state is also considering a major increase to the cigarette tax, something they've done several times the last few years.

I've never been a smoker, but I know when I was a kid a carton was in the $15 range, today a name brand can easily run $40 here in Wisconsin.

More and more I'm noticing the local and federal government raising so called sin taxes, I think because they can do it under the guise that it's for the better health of the people, but also because they know that only a minority use these products so the complaint levels will be minimal.

My concern though is that the thinking on this seems so short sighted.  We keep raising these taxes because we're running out of ways to raise money.  But what happens when people actually STOP smoking?  At some point they will and these HUGE revenue streams for the states and feds will go away.  What then?

I know they make the argument that smokers cost our health systems untold billions in expenses, but at the same time, if everyone who smokes adds on another 5 - 10 years to their life because they quit smoking isnt' that going to seriously affect our health care system too?  The last ten years of anyones life tend to require a lot more medical attention that the years that come before them.



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MzHartz


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I agree completely. And, as morbid as it is, that the life span of the average American has increased is one of the problems with dwindling social security.

Does anyone know any stats on the number of smokers now, as opposed to 10 and 20 years ago? What about the numbers of teenagers who smoke? I'm getting the impression that the peer pressure to smoke is kind of being outweighed by the stigma of smoking. It's no longer cool, it's becoming taboo.

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JD The Jazz Doctor


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gee whiz I bet them marijuana cigarrettes will become an affoardable and viable option...blankstare.gif

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Jeremy Riggs


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I'm not sure what the stats are specifically, but I know a report I read just a week or two ago said less than 19% of adults smoke today, and that was about half of what had smoked in the 60's.

It's definitely declining, and $4.00 packs of cigs has to be helping that decline.

I agree with the increasing life expectancy too. We can't have it all, but as a country we've kind of been programmed to think we can. Our never-ending goal to cure all disease has some seriously negative ramifications to it. When you think about the financial problems this country could potentially have 20, 30 or 50 years out it's staggering.



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Mad Mema


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My guess is that when the revenue stream dries up from lack of smokers, something else will be defined as the next great sin and taxed to death. Next low hanging fruit that is already getting hit... alcohol.

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Jeremy Riggs


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Yeah, alcohol is gonna be the next big one I think.

I've also heard them talk about a fat tax. Taxing things like donuts, candy, etc. In fact our state already has a sneaky candy tax that they charge BEFORE the product is bought at retail. Like if I wanted to buy candy to resell, I've got to pay a tax on it.

So this is great. 50 years from now no one will have any unhealthy vices. We'll all be the pictures of health, living to 150 and taxed at a rate of 80% throughout our lives. We'll still have no social security AND our health care system will have collapsed under a population that had tripled or quadrupled in size over the last half-century. hmm.gif

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Mad Mema


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And don't forget how miserable everyone will be because they can't even have a lousy Hershey's Kiss every now and again. That is when they are awake because caffeine is probably a sin too.

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disco strangler


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i'm all for socialism -- i think the government should step in and take whatever measures they need to make things "better".

i'm pretty sure people can figure out how to grow and roll their own...
making wine or other hooch is easy enough.
candy is kinda tricky though... you don't want to heat up too fast or you'll burn the sugar.



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Mad Mema


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Yes, but it will be difficult to make your own candy without sugar... back to the fat tax.

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disco strangler


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drat!

*panic*

i NEED my sugar fix!

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confuzzed


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Note to self: Stock up on alcohol, firearms and ammo.

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MzHartz


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Do you see how I got the idea for a book that takes place where chocolate is illegal?

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Pambo


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I told my husband that I was gonna start smoking because SOMEONE had to help with that tax burden...biggrin.gif

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Mad Mema


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confuzzed wrote:

Note to self: Stock up on alcohol, firearms and ammo.





Check, check, and check... wait... better buy another bottle of Jack!

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disco strangler


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MzHartz wrote:

Do you see how I got the idea for a book that takes place where chocolate is illegal?





ahha... and it's really not so far fetched! how is it coming along?

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MzHartz


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disco strangler wrote:

 

MzHartz wrote:

Do you see how I got the idea for a book that takes place where chocolate is illegal?



 



ahha... and it's really not so far fetched! how is it coming along?

 


It's in the editing and rewriting stage.  And I need to rename one of my characters.  I already have one named William, and I'll keep his name, I like the irony of it.  But I accidentally named another major character Charlie, and once I made the connection, I thought it was a bit much.

 



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disco strangler


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MzHartz wrote:

disco strangler wrote:

 

MzHartz wrote:

Do you see how I got the idea for a book that takes place where chocolate is illegal?



 



ahha... and it's really not so far fetched! how is it coming along?

 


It's in the editing and rewriting stage.  And I need to rename one of my characters.  I already have one named William, and I'll keep his name, I like the irony of it.  But I accidentally named another major character Charlie, and once I made the connection, I thought it was a bit much.

 





laughing.gif

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MzHartz


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disco strangler wrote:

 

MzHartz wrote:

 

disco strangler wrote:

 

MzHartz wrote:

Do you see how I got the idea for a book that takes place where chocolate is illegal?



 



ahha... and it's really not so far fetched! how is it coming along?

 


It's in the editing and rewriting stage.  And I need to rename one of my characters.  I already have one named William, and I'll keep his name, I like the irony of it.  But I accidentally named another major character Charlie, and once I made the connection, I thought it was a bit much.

 



 



laughing.gif

 


Actually, my husband named him, and I liked the name.  Then, 7 chapters later, I finally made the connection. 

 



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ghostdancer


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I'm probably gonna take some flack for this, but what the heck, I'm used to it. wink  I'm a smoker, and I'm really sick and tired of getting hit with a tax hike on cigarettes every time I turn around.  I no longer smoke name brands...they're in the $50 and higher a carton range, $5 a pack.  I switched to the off brands (Basic) all last year, then they too went up in price to $48 a carton.  Right now I'm smoking a brand a local gas station carries; they're currently $38 a carton.  Since I've been "taking a beating" in the sin tax, I think it's high time they start jacking the tax up on alcohol!!!  There are more people that drink than smoke.......let's start hitting them up for a change and continue raising the tax on alcohol (which means constantly) like they have for cigarettes!!!
Why should I and the other smokers be the constant tax targets??  Time for the drinkers to pony up for a while.


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Jeremy Riggs


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ghostdancer wrote:

I'm probably gonna take some flack for this, but what the heck, I'm used to it. wink  I'm a smoker, and I'm really sick and tired of getting hit with a tax hike on cigarettes every time I turn around.  I no longer smoke name brands...they're in the $50 and higher a carton range, $5 a pack.  I switched to the off brands (Basic) all last year, then they too went up in price to $48 a carton.  Right now I'm smoking a brand a local gas station carries; they're currently $38 a carton.  Since I've been "taking a beating" in the sin tax, I think it's high time they start jacking the tax up on alcohol!!!  There are more people that drink than smoke.......let's start hitting them up for a change and continue raising the tax on alcohol (which means constantly) like they have for cigarettes!!!
Why should I and the other smokers be the constant tax targets??  Time for the drinkers to pony up for a while.



Alright Alright.  We'll stop increasing the cigarette tax.  Instead we'll start a liberal tax biggrin.gif  THATS a tax base that'll NEVER go away.  hmm.gif

Seriously though, I've never smoked a cigarette in my life and I still think it's unfair how they zone in on you guys.

Personally I hope it works and 20 years from now no one smokes.  But it's not fair to make you pay so much more of the tax burden and try to claim it's because we're worried about your health.

No one in the process of creating taxes gives a crap about your health.  You're an easy target.

Like I said, the larger issue is what the hell happens when those tax revenues dry up because no one's smoking.

I'm sure the increased are in part to offset the taxes they're not collecting anymore from all the folks who have quit.

Ghost, you must have a breaking point, everyone does.  Where would we have to get on the price of a pack of cigarettes before you said enough is enough and quit?



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disco strangler


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ghostdancer wrote:

I'm probably gonna take some flack for this, but what the heck, I'm used to it. wink  I'm a smoker, and I'm really sick and tired of getting hit with a tax hike on cigarettes every time I turn around.  I no longer smoke name brands...they're in the $50 and higher a carton range, $5 a pack.  I switched to the off brands (Basic) all last year, then they too went up in price to $48 a carton.  Right now I'm smoking a brand a local gas station carries; they're currently $38 a carton.  Since I've been "taking a beating" in the sin tax, I think it's high time they start jacking the tax up on alcohol!!!  There are more people that drink than smoke.......let's start hitting them up for a change and continue raising the tax on alcohol (which means constantly) like they have for cigarettes!!!
Why should I and the other smokers be the constant tax targets??  Time for the drinkers to pony up for a while.





sure. then there's the issue of alcohol related accidents. i don't think i've ever heard of a accident (auto or other excluding house fires) caused by smoking -- although somewhere i'm sure there is. smokers are aware that they are harming (mainly) themselves, but it isn't impairing them to possibly bring harm others. and people that don't smoke can just as easily stay away from people that do smoke. i don't smoke, but if someone wants to smoke, i don't have a problem because i can walk away until they are done.

besides that, if smoking related deaths are ever a thing of the past, we'll all die of starvation because the planet will be overpopulated with healthy people it can't possibly feed...

-- Edited by disco strangler at 13:13, 2009-01-09

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confuzzed


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Mad Mema wrote:

confuzzed wrote:

Note to self: Stock up on alcohol, firearms and ammo.






Check, check, and check... wait... better buy another bottle of Jack!
You can never have too much Jack on hand.



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confuzzed


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Although last night I tried the Mojito thing. Rum and mint. Light, crisp. lick.gif

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ghostdancer


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Jeremy Riggs wrote:

 

Ghost, you must have a breaking point, everyone does.  Where would we have to get on the price of a pack of cigarettes before you said enough is enough and quit?

 


JR, it's getting really close to the breaking point for me right now.  I've tried to quit a number of times; it's very, very difficult to do.  I've gone the "cold turkey" method, got some pills (can't remember the name unless I hear it) from the doctor which gave me horrible, horrible nightmares and did nothing to take the cravings away, and am currently trying again by limiting myself to only smoking at certain times of the day......a weaning process.  If I fail once again, I'll try the gum to see if that works; by the way, the price for this is the same as a carton of cigarettes.  Who thought up the idea of offering gum to help smokers quit but charging them the same price as a carton of cigarettes??? no.gifhmm

Back when a pack of smokes cost me less than $2, I said I'd quit when it went to $3, then $4, then $5.  Truthfully, I don't know what the price would have to reach.  In a way, I'm like a junkie; have to have my fix and will pay whatever it cost.  cry 

 



-- Edited by ghostdancer at 13:33, 2009-01-09

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Jeremy Riggs


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You know, since they're raising these taxes because they're so concerned for everyone's health, maybe a sizable portion of it should be going to finance helping smokers find a way to quit.

I think the most they do right now are lame public service announcements telling people that smoking is bad for them. As if there's a man or woman in this country who doesn't already know that.

I truly do sympathize with you. I know it's not easy to break ANY addiction. And while you struggle with it they put the squeeze on you financially which can't help. In fact, most people I know say smoking helps them relax, so the added stress of tight finances is probably only making it more difficult for you to give it up!

There's gotta be a better way.

Again, I'm all for eliminating smoking. But there's got to be a reasonable limit on the taxing aspect of it.

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Mad Mema


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Ghost... there is already a heavy tax on much alcohol consumption. It's called "leaving a tip". I don't complain though... I'm friends with most of the people who serve me. smile.gif I think the pills you are trying to think of is maybe Welburtin. It is an anti-depressant that was discovered to have the side effect of helping people quit smoking. I know a few people who have taken it for one reason or the other. You are by no means alone in having the disturbing side effects.

I'm absolutely a non-smoker, but I agree... the cigarette tax is WAY too high.

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MzHartz


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My dad and stepmom don't smoke anymore and they used the gum. They stopped smoking at least 2 years ago.

But they're still chewing the gum. They're addicted to it now instead.

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Jeremy Riggs


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lol.

I suppose that's ok until they develop that TMJ or something. no.gif

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MzHartz


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I do know that our hospital has a free smoking cessation program. The meetings are free and the patches and gum are free. Our friend has gone to it multiple times, but then she starts smoking again and doesn't go. She says at this point she'd be embarrassed to go back. Brian went once, and he even wrote a letter to them about how great it was. Then after he stopped going, he started smoking again. Now I can't get him to go back.

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confuzzed


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Boy finally quit by using the patch. Although, I think him wanting to be with me helped him too and he knew it bothered me. Before he met me, he had quit a couple of time before and went back. I understand it was difficult, though I have never been through it. Stress makes him want them even more. I have been told that is is like a choice every day not to smoke. A friend's Mom quit about two and a half years ago. She will tell you that every day she thinks about having a cigarette. A friend's husband quit by using a pill. I think it was called Chantex or something close to that. I won't give my friends a hard time about smoking, but I will encourage and support them when/if they decide to give it up. I almost hope that they do it by reducing the number of cigarettes they smoke a day.

Good luck Ghost! We are here for you.

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