This makes me SICK. This is why we need LESS government, not more!
It's a long article, but if you're not gonna read it at least make note of the section I highlighted (one of the possible ways of keeping track).
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Transportation chief eyes taxing miles driven
LaHood says current gasoline tax not enough to fund infrastructure
The Associated Press
updated 6:50 a.m. CT,Fri., Feb. 20, 2009
WASHINGTON - Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says he wants to consider taxing motorists based on how many miles they drive rather than how much gasoline they burn an idea that has angered drivers in some states where it has been proposed.
Gasoline taxes that for nearly half a century have paid for the federal share of highway and bridge construction can no longer be counted on to raise enough money to keep the nation's transportation system moving, LaHood said in an interview with The Associated Press.
"We should look at the vehicular miles program where people are actually clocked on the number of miles that they traveled," the former Illinois Republican lawmaker said.
Most transportation experts see a vehicle miles traveled tax as a long-term solution, but Congress is being urged to move in that direction now by funding pilot projects.
The idea also is gaining ground in several states. Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island are talking about such programs, and a North Carolina panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.
A tentative plan in Massachusetts to use GPS chips in vehicles to charge motorists by the mile has drawn complaints from drivers who say it's an Orwellian intrusion by government into the lives of citizens. Other motorists say it eliminates an incentive to drive more fuel-efficient cars since gas guzzlers will be taxed at the same rate as fuel sippers.
Thinking outside the box Besides a VMT tax, more tolls for highways and bridges and more government partnerships with business to finance transportation projects are other funding options, LaHood, one of two Republicans in President Barack Obama's Cabinet, said in the interview Thursday.
"What I see this administration doing is this thinking outside the box on how we fund our infrastructure in America," he said.
LaHood said he firmly opposes raising the federal gasoline tax in the current recession.
The program that funds the federal share of highway projects is part of a surface transportation law that expires Sept. 30. Last fall, Congress made an emergency infusion of $8 billion to make up for a shortfall between gas tax revenues and the amount of money promised to states for their projects. The gap between money raised by the gas tax and the cost of maintaining the nation's highway system and expanding it to accommodate population growth is forecast to continue to widen.
Among the reasons for the gap is a switch to more fuel-efficient cars and a decrease in driving that many transportation experts believe is related to the economic downturn. Electric cars and alternative-fuel vehicles that don't use gasoline are expected to start penetrating the market in greater numbers.
"One of the things I think everyone agrees with around reauthorization of the highway bill is that the highway trust fund is an antiquated system for funding our highways," LaHood said. "It did work to build the interstate system and it was very effective, there's no question about that. But the big question now is, We're into the 21st century and how are we going to take care of our infrastructure needs ... with a highway trust fund that had to be plused up by $8 billion by Congress last year?"
Report expected next week A blue-ribbon national transportation commission is expected to release a report next week recommending a VMT.
The system would require all cars and trucks be equipped with global satellite positioning technology, a transponder, a clock and other equipment to record how many miles a vehicle was driven, whether it was driven on highways or secondary roads, and even whether it was driven during peak traffic periods or off-peak hours.
The device would tally how much tax motorists owed depending upon their road use. Motorists would pay the amount owed when it was downloaded, probably at gas stations at first, but an alternative eventually would be needed.
Rob Atkinson, president of the National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing Commission, the agency that is developing future transportation funding options, said moving to a national VMT would take about a decade.
Privacy concerns are based more on perception than any actual risk, Atkinson said. The satellite information would be beamed one way to the car and driving information would be contained within the device on the car, with the amount of the tax due the only information that's downloaded, he said.
The devices also could be programmed to charge higher rates to vehicles that are heavier, like trucks that put more stress on roadways, Atkinson said.
Does this mean that the gas tax won't exist anymore? What kind of rate are they looking to charge? Will it be tax deductible?
I drive close to 300 miles a week. And that is just back and forth to work every day.
They already keep track of our miles in this state. It isn't used against us, but rather to protect a buyer of a preowned vehicle. It watches for odometer tampering. As part of your yealry registration, one of the things to be completed is the current mileage on the vehicle. They tell me my tolls on the turnpike go to pay for infastructure improvements there. What if I drove the most of my miles on the turnpike? Wouldn't that then be double taxation?
If you were ever accused of a crime they would access your vehicle info as part of their investigation. Or a supposed witness to a crime.
Would it also be a way to locate your car if stolen? Wouldn't that put companies like lojack out of business?
This is part of our discussion the other day about being taxed out the wazoo. It sucks. If the government would stop wasting our money, they would have to try to conceive these new stupid plans and taxes.
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Stop trying to be what you see. Be what you ought to be.
"...panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax."
Part of my answer. I missed it or forgot it the first time I read the story.
"Last fall, Congress made an emergency infusion of $8 billion to make up for a shortfall between gas tax revenues and the amount of money promised to states for their projects."
That is because not everyone could afford to pay for $4/gal gas. There was less driving therefore less consumption.
-- Edited by confuzzed at 13:11, 2009-02-20
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Stop trying to be what you see. Be what you ought to be.
Plus you're already taxed specifically for these purposes.
License fees, yearly auto regristration ($75 a year now in WI), some states or cities institute a Wheel tax (I think Milwaukee city just implemented that), parking permits, gas taxes. Huge sales tax on the purchase of the car to begin with, along license & title fees.
I think we pay enough for the privilege of driving. LEAVE US THE HELL ALONE!
Big brother is already here. This is just another itteration of the effect. GPS chips are already your cell phone... when is the last time your cell phone wasn't pretty close to where you were for any length of time? Got a nav system in your car? They already could get the data for where your vehicle goes. Some of those things have web based applications where other people can track your whereabouts if they have the right login info. The info is essentially already there, its just a matter of refining the data mining to get to the point where this is feasible.
I'm sure this will someday happen. Just so long as they strip every cent of tax out of the purchase price of fuel when they do it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really a fan of this idea... but as the owner of 2 gas guzzlers who has been berated by various sniveling little Prius driving punks at the gas station I'd have to say, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MOFO! How ya like me now?!?!?!?!? You GOTTA pay the same as me!!"
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MM
That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
Big brother is already here. This is just another itteration of the effect. GPS chips are already your cell phone... when is the last time your cell phone wasn't pretty close to where you were for any length of time? Got a nav system in your car? They already could get the data for where your vehicle goes. Some of those things have web based applications where other people can track your whereabouts if they have the right login info. The info is essentially already there, its just a matter of refining the data mining to get to the point where this is feasible.
I'm sure this will someday happen. Just so long as they strip every cent of tax out of the purchase price of fuel when they do it.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really a fan of this idea... but as the owner of 2 gas guzzlers who has been berated by various sniveling little Prius driving punks at the gas station I'd have to say, "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA MOFO! How ya like me now?!?!?!?!? You GOTTA pay the same as me!!"
Which is actually another thing inherently wrong with this idea. If you're gonna drive a gas guzzler you should pay more for using up more resources and driving up the demand for gasoline.
This idea takes away a big part of the motivation for being energy concious, which flies directly in the face of what big government has been pushing on us for the last decade.
DS: I DO think a revolution is coming. Probably a good 20 years away, but somethings got to give. This country is moving further and further away from what it's supposed to be all about. At some point people will stand up and fight back.
The government is pushing auto makers to make more efficient vehicles.
More efficient vehicles will mean less fuel tax collected.
They have just realized this, and are not about to try to operate on less, so to keep the same amount of revenue, they are looking at other ways to collect that tax money.
The government is pushing auto makers to make more efficient vehicles.
More efficient vehicles will mean less fuel tax collected.
They have just realized this, and are not about to try to operate on less, so to keep the same amount of revenue, they are looking at other ways to collect that tax money.
Oh yeah. I didn't think about that. Very good point Web.
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Stop trying to be what you see. Be what you ought to be.
Web's got it right. That's the problem with taxing any consumable, gas, alcohol, cigarettes. They encourage people not to use those items, and then rely on that income. That would be like any of us that sell anything saying, "Whatever you do, don't buy our products or services!"
I already do pay more for my gas guzzlers. I'm a big girl, I just weep softly to myself as the $$ tick up on the pump. I just find it particularly offensive when some random stranger elects to presume to lecture me about it. To date, none has ever walked away from the experience with the sense of self satsifaction they thought they would. I don't get rude about it, I just smile sweetly and say, "I drive this behemoth because I can AFFORD it." Particularly effective on the guys who drive those cars.
Why should other drivers not have to pay for the usage of the roads just as much as I do? They still use the roads. Those little cars just feel the potholes more than I do so I'm less inclined to fuss about them.
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MM
That which does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
You should pay more because you're burning through a resource faster than we need to, polluting the earth at a much faster rate AND creating a higher demand for gas that drives the price up for everyone.
Don't get me wrong, this is America and I support your right to drive what you want as long as it's legal. But I do think there's every reason in the world to discourage the use of vehicles that get 12 miles to a gallon.
did i tell y'all that Mr. DS is getting a couple pack goats? this is true... but it's not for daily transportation... he's using them when he goes hunting.
but... they'll be there when we need them...
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You should fear anything that can bleed for seven days without dying... (as told to Mr. DS on 3-12-10)
When I think about the billions and billions of dollars that were sucked out of this economy and into the oil producing nations over the past four years it makes me want to throw up.