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jstdve


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     on being an athiest, as most of  the worlds laws are based on a religion, and athiest don't believe in " god "  , is it O.K. for one athiest to kill another ?   I'm not trying to be funny here , just haveing a tuff time formulateing the question ,  I guess its kinda like - who or what  does an athiest answer to ? if anything ?  

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dave
JD The Jazz Doctor


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answerable to a moral code based on human decency and dignity.

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jstdve


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      Great answer J.D. , you been eating a lot of fish lately?

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dave
MzHartz


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JD took my answer.  But, just because you don't believe in a god, doesn't mean you don't have a conscience.


Dave, um, what's the fish thing about?



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JD The Jazz Doctor


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nah, I've been on an all juice diet for 2 days tho. I here this sort of purification process/ fasting is supposed to get one nearer to the spiritual realm. I think what they mean by this is death!!! I'm gettin a burger! 

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09
WFTR


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I submit this to the discussion, if there is not a God, then what makes any moral code a code at all?  If there is not an absolute truth, then who's to say what is right?  Relativism is then the rule, and no one can say that anything is wrong or right.  Such a determination takes a conscensus, who sets the guidlines for that conscensus?

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jstdve


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  Mz-  i think theres an old wifes tale about fish being a good brain food

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dave
jstdve


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    If this forum ever formed a debate team , we'd blow the McLaughlin group right outta the water

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dave
WFTR


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WRONG!  Next question, is JR wearing a costume, or does he actually have webbed feet?


(Not to derail your question, Dave.  Just dropping in some levity)



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MzHartz


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Even God is relative, Wef.  Heck, take a look at the fanatics out there that think their god will reward them if they kill another man in the name of God. 


I believe that religion is too big and complex of a thing for the human mind to understand.  You have to live true to your heart and be the best person you can be in the time you have.  This is what you've got, make the most of it.


It's really hard to explain my beliefs, especially by typing them out, but I'm going to give it a little bit of a shot.  I believe that there are an infinite number of realities, that there is no afterlife, there is no before-life, there is no past, there is no future, time is not linear, and there is only now.  There is no such thing as death, because there is no end, because there is no beginning, it's only reality as you percieve it in this exact moment.  Some people claim I'm Taoist, but I don't like that label.  I do believe in karma to the extent that somehow, someway that no one on earth can describe, you get back what you give, but I don't believe in the restrictions of an organized religion, because in the big picture, there is no such thing as organization.  Have I lost you yet?  Basically, I believe in infinity.



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WFTR


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Ah, yes, MZ, but if all is only what we can see right now, then how come we can't just wish all the bad stuff away?  After all, it's just a dream, right?  And just because someone does something in the name of God, it doesn't make it right, nor does it reflect on God.  In the same vein, organized religions do have rules and regs, but God does not exist to serve religions, religion exists to serve God, and they are run by falable humans who make mistakes.  This also does not reflect God.


True, our brains cannot comprehend the whole of existence, but that does not cancel reality.  Do you fully comprehend all the medical procedures that the kids you serve have to go through?  Does your lack of comprehension negate the reality and benefit of those procedures?



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jstdve


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   kinda like being in an out of control T.A.R.D.I.S. ?    (im lost , but thats ok , ive been lost lots of times )

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dave
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Like I said, it's hard for me to describe my beliefs.  And I haven't met a person yet who quite understands.  No, it;s not just a dream.  Reality is what you perceive, this is what I see now, so this is what's real to me.  Plus, what's bad is purely perceptive.  You can learn from "bad" things too, so in a way, that makes them good as well.  So wishing the bad things away would be wishing the good things away too, and then reality itself would cease to exist.


Your god can be different than the god in the mind of the person in the pew next to you.  The person that kills in the name of God believes that what he is doing is right and what you think is wrong, how does that make you right and not he.  But it doesn't matter.  You have to follow what you think is right and believe in yourself. 


You're getting a little below the belt there.  First of all, these procedures don't always benefit the kids I work for, and I deal with enough of that every day.  I am sad that the families have to go through the rest of their life missing this person that was very much of a part of their life, but the person who has passed is just not a part of this reality any more.  I'm sure they are part of an infinite number of others, and maybe I'm helping them there, or maybe there they are helping me, but they just aren't here any more.



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jstdve


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    I could use a belt about now, set em up jd  ,sigh, ive created a monster, that was not my intention.  sorry mz.  didnt want you to justify your beliefs , just a little explanation if you wanted to

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dave
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No attack on you, MZ, just debating the point.  Truth be told, you can sense a very deep and real compassion in your spirit that is quite humbling.  Let me just float out there one more observation, and then enough is enough.  I'll get back to Colt bashing.


You do admit that there is a reality, an absolute truth of some kind, we just fall very short of comprehending it and so we are forced to get through based on what we do know.  In a sense, we know what road were on, but our map isn't real clear, and it's foggy.  We drive on getting ready for anything.  But, if there is a truth out there it must have a basis in something.  Just for the heck of it, try praying to God sometime even if you feel your praying to the mist.  He has a way of making a hand appear from that mist.  He is well aware of all our confusion and that it can really seem absolute.  He just wants you to extend a hand, and He'll grab it.


And thank you for the discussion!  I'd rather spend time talking to you more than many believers that I've met.  You still the Queen!


 


 


 


 


Colts stink.



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MzHartz


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That is it, Wef!  I believe that God is a manifestation of the human mind, a way to take the incomprihensible and shape it into something easier to believe in.  So in a way, we both believe the same thing, just on two totally different levels.


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


Bears suck!!!



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MzHartz


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And Dave, no worries, I enjoyed that conversation.

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