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Post Info TOPIC: Presidential Field trip on Monday


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Presidential Field trip on Monday


President Bush is coming to Milwaukee tomorrow.

Hail To The Chief.


JD, Riggs and I already have notified the secret service of your whereabouts

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Grand Poobah

    



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that's allright- PLENTY of others would love to.....uhhh... have a word or two with the guy, but he's all mouth and no ears.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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I'd love to show him this article from today's JS ONLINE,  but I'm sure his aide, the one that can read, will probably be busy brushing salt off the official presidental hubcaps or something...


UW costs rise out of reach for many poor
Aid lags; students come from wealthier families
By MEGAN TWOHEY
mtwohey@journalsentinel.com
Posted: Feb. 18, 2006

More than a century after Wisconsin created a public university to serve all its citizens regardless of income, evidence is mounting that some students can no longer afford the bill.


Financial aid has not kept pace with the rising cost of the University of Wisconsin System. By its own account, the system is serving a smaller percentage of poor students.


This comes as Wisconsin struggles to compete in a global economy and business leaders say they need more educational firepower than ever before.


Consider:


Over the last decade, the average cost of attending the UW System - including tuition, room and board, books and transportation - has increased 55% to $12,724 a year. The amount of need-based financial aid available to students has grown 24% - to $6,026.


• The cost of sending a child through a state university, financial aid included, now consumes 22% of the average family's income in Wisconsin. For low-income families, it's 50%.


• The percentage of freshmen within the UW System from the two lowest income brackets dropped from 39% to 32% between 1994 and 2004. The percentage of freshmen from the top two income brackets grew from 38% to 44%.


• Even when they are better qualified, students from low-income families are less likely to enroll in the system than their upper-income peers; 44% of low-income students with ACT scores higher than 28 enrolled in 2004, compared with 54% of high-income students with ACT scores between 20 and 23.


"When I was growing up, the assumption in Wisconsin was that if you were qualified, you could go to college," said Connie Hutchison, head of the state board that distributes financial aid. "That is no longer the case."


Missing its mission

UW-Madison was founded as a land-grant campus in the mid-1800s with a mandate to provide quality higher education to the broad population. The Legislature issued a similar mandate in 1971 when it created the UW System - a collection of 13 public universities, 13 colleges and a statewide extension.


According to state law, the UW System should enable "students of all ages, backgrounds and levels of income to participate in the search for knowledge and individual development."


Yet in 2004, a mere 8% of the freshman class at UW-Madison, the flagship institution, came from families making less than $30,000 a year, while more than 30% came from families making more than $92,000 a year. The median family income of freshmen was $72,000 - almost twice that of the state.


"Founded to be an engine of economic productivity, the UW-Madison threatens to become an engine of economic and social inequality," a committee of UW-Madison faculty and staff said in a scathing report last year.


"The disappearance of low-income students from the UW-Madison threatens to exacerbate the growing gulf between the haves and the have-nots."


As public universities become less diverse, all students stand to lose, said Sara Goldrick-Rab, assistant professor of educational policy studies at UW-Madison.


"A diverse campus is quite simply a richer environment, both for teaching and learning," Goldrick-Rab said.


Lateia Williams of Racine had the grades to attend one of the state's public universities. But she chose Kenosha's Gateway Technical College instead. The cost of a four-year degree was beyond her means.


"I thought, this is just too expensive," Williams said.


Growing costs

The federal Pell Grant is the primary source of financial assistance for needy college students. Over the last decade, the percentage of Pell Grant recipients in Wisconsin attending a state university dropped from 57% to 53%, while the percentage attending a two-year college increased from 21% to 26%, according to data compiled by Tom Mortenson, a national researcher at The Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education.


The cost of higher education has risen faster than inflation across the country. Faced with budget shortfalls, state legislatures have cut taxpayer support for public universities, and the universities have raised tuition sharply.


After the Legislature cut its funding by $250 million, the UW System increased tuition by 18% in 2003 and 16% in 2004. The system has received a shrinking portion of the overall state budget in recent years as the Legislature has increased spending for other priorities, such as prisons and highways.


Financial aid has not kept up.


Congress has shifted federal funding for financial aid from grants to loans, many of which are available to college students from families with higher incomes. Under President Bush's 2007 budget request, the maximum Pell Grant would remain at $4,050 for the fifth year in a row.


The Wisconsin Legislature provides additional assistance to help make up the difference. It is providing around $55 million in need-based financial aid for students in the UW System this year. But the difference between the average state aid and the average tuition in the system has grown from $2,005 in 1997 to $3,753 in 2005.


"Every year, we see students who would like to attend but don't have the money," said Jennifer Muffick, a counselor at Case High School in Racine.


That was the case with a student who was recently accepted to UW-Milwaukee, Muffick said. The student's single mother was working a low-paying job, and he was eligible for financial aid. But the combination wasn't enough. He was forced to cross the university off his list.


"Are there people who simply can't afford it, even with all the financial aid?" said David Glisch-Sanchez, academic affairs director of the United Council of UW Students. "If it takes 50% of your income, the answer is yes. It's not an option. You have to live, you have to eat."


Financial aid officers said a degree from a state university is still affordable for most low-income students. But the students must be willing to take on staggering burdens, such as private loans, full-time jobs or high credit card debt - something some are unwilling to do. Others get overwhelmed by the dizzying financial aid forms.


"I think we're accessible, but it takes a lot of loans," said Jane Hojan-Clark, director of financial aid at UW-Milwaukee, who said the university is taking more steps to recruit and retain low-income students. "For cultural or other reasons, a lot of students can't take out loans."


According to Hojan-Clark, 80% of financial aid recipients at UW-Milwaukee hold jobs, while more than 1,500 students have loans from private banks, a form of help that almost no student needed five years ago.


'Terrifying' debt

Overall, students in the UW System are graduating with an average of $18,000 in debt. For low-income students, the debt level is much higher.


Melissa Cichantek, a UW-Stevens Point senior who grew up on a modest farm in Marshfield, has used a patchwork of need-based grants, loans, jobs and scholarships to pay for her higher education. When the political science major thinks about the $17,000 in debt she will face after graduation this spring, her voice starts to tremble.


"It's terrifying," the 22-year-old said. "How am I going to pay for health insurance, car insurance, rent and my student loans?"


Antonio Roudez, a junior at UW-Parkside, said his government-issued grants and loans were not enough to pay the bills. The 23-year-old, who grew up in a poor family, has taken on private loans and full-time work as a jail guard to make ends meet.


Because of his work schedule, Roudez can attend classes only part-time. He estimates it will take him six years to graduate.


Gov. Jim Doyle highlighted the problem of college costs in his state of the state address last month when he proposed a new form of financial assistance for students in the UW System.


As part of his proposed Wisconsin Covenant, which is based on an Indiana program, students would be eligible for new assistance if they sign a pledge of success in eighth grade, take college preparatory classes in high school, and maintain a B average and stay out of trouble. If the students are unable to cover UW tuition with all other forms of financial aid, the state would cover the remaining gap through grants, subsidized loans or work-study jobs.


"Every person who wants it and works for it should be able to afford a great education," Doyle said.


Doyle's office and the UW System will fine-tune the initiative, estimated to cost $60 million a year, over the next year before submitting it to the Legislature.


But previous efforts to create a new form of state aid have run into resistance. Some legislators have already opposed Doyle's proposal, saying it will be too costly.


In the meantime, students such as Roudez are struggling.


"I try to take it one day at a time," he said. "I'm up all night with homework. I get three hours of sleep. It's really hard."



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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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I could address this article from two different and very legitimate angles, but fortunately for JD he chose a day in which I feel like crap to post it, so I'm leaving it be.

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Grand Poobah

    



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its ok bird- wait until you feel better- no way is this issue going away!

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09
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I will address this just to share two points. One is that this problem did not originate under this President alone and he is a figurehead and not the reason for the problem nor the solution.


 


But more so to what I know. I work at a private school and out tuition has gone up every year since I have been there. I do think to the level and percentages of some schools, but out tuition is very high to begin with. However, I believe you can get what you pay for to a point. The experience you would have at my school is much different than the one you would have at the other local public college- College of Charleston. Now the money part. I have gotten a raise every year since I have been there. This year I got quite a nice raise. We also built a new million dollar science building that is so state of the art. Remodeling is going on in every major housing building and the landscaping is beatuiful. Evey kid has free wireless internet access. We are in the process of adding more science majors and working with the large hospital across the street to meet some of their staffing needs. It is pretty neat to see what technology can do for a classroom. My point is. Our tuition has gone up, but it is reinvested into the college through raises, new postions, new buildings and standard upkeep.



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Grand Poobah

    



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What is the solution for the poor?


Heck, I phrased that all wrong. What is the solution for the non-rich?



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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09
Anonymous

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I do not know that, but I know I just decided to go into life long debt so that I could have the degree and get a better paying and more respectable job. But I did not think that Bush would settle that issue. I do believe that Congress should be offering him more viable solutions that he would feel compelled to pass appropriate legislation. I, Jane Public, do not vow to have the answers, but to at least vote for people who claim they do.

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Grand Poobah

    



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well, I don't know...Bush creates the budget, the republican led congress passes it. That sort of places the responsibility of solving issues like this, or at least heading them back in the right direction, in their laps.


He does say he's the education president. That's important to the future of america. I hate the idea of thinking that even those who can afford a college education lining up for dish-washing jobs because all the smart companies realized the benefits of outsourcing or moving to foreign nations. Meanwhile, if Iraq ever stablelizes, will our tax money be going to give free education to the Iraqis? Is it already?



-- Edited by JD The Jazz Doctor at 20:04, 2006-02-19

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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Read the story carefully, it says the increases and problems go back ten years, that's a shared problem.

I'll admit Bush isn't doing a lot for advanced learning though. However, we've already had this discussion. There's a limit to how much I'm willing to spend so every kid that wants to can go to college.

High school, you'll get no arguement from me, it should be guaranteed. College, any Federal help is more than we HAVE to do, so they can just stop their whining and get a 6000 a year job to make up the difference or, get this, this is a real crazy thought, PLAN AHEAD and save for your college years!

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Jeremy Riggs wrote:

this is a real crazy thought, PLAN AHEAD and save for your college years!



What's the legal age you can start working? 14? I really doubt a high school student who even saves every penny from a really good high schooler job can save enough up for maybe even one year of college in 4 years.

I'm not going to get into the whole tution discussion thing again, we've already had that, but you do have to admit that some kids are hurt by their parent's lack of planning.

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Grand Poobah

    



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....and that for many its hard to plan for things like a college education when sometimes its hard enough to make sure that there is food on the table each night.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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Yes, I think a lot of kids are hurt by their parents lack of planning. And thats where the responsibility falls, on the child and on the parents.

I just refuse to beleive it's my responsibility to educate every American to whatever level of education he or she desires.

See, the difference here is that until you graduate high school you are a CHILD, and I have a responsibility to make sure the country I live in gives you an education. At age 18 you are your own responsibility.

I don't care if you go on to a career at McDonalds, starting out as a fry guy and working you're way up. That's cool with me.

If you want to be a lawyer, then you should be smart enough to figure out a way to do it on your own dime or you probably won't be a very good one anyway.

When does it end? Should I keep paying for a kid who decides he needs six years of college? Seven?

Maybe after that I can pay for him to use a job placement service!

It's just a difference of views between JD and myself (and I assume a few other people). I think education is an area in which my responsibilities to my fellow man is limited. It ends at High School Graduation.

No reason my tax money should turn some 18 year old into a guy thats gonna be my boss in 20 years because he got a college degree and I didn't.

I made a choice I didn't want to go on to college, if I did want to I wouldn't be crying because the Federal Government isn't covering enough of it, I'd be ecstatic to find out that they're willing to cover ANY OF IT!

It's incredible to me that it shouldn't be the parents problem, it shouldn't be the would-be ADULT college students problem, it should be MY problem, the taxpayer who has no children!

And if I DID have children why would I want to pay more in taxes for 75 years so the government can pay a portion of my kids college costs?

It just makes no sense!

-- Edited by Jeremy Riggs at 21:22, 2006-02-19

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Riggs- your tax money can either go towards building educations or prisons...this is not your money to keep. Which is better for the health of the nation?


The federal Pell Grant is the primary source of financial assistance for needy college students. Over the last decade, the percentage of Pell Grant recipients in Wisconsin attending a state university dropped from 57% to 53%, while the percentage attending a two-year college increased from 21% to 26%, according to data compiled by Tom Mortenson, a national researcher at The Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education.


"This comes as Wisconsin struggles to compete in a global economy and business leaders say they need more educational firepower than ever before....


 


The cost of higher education has risen faster than inflation across the country. Faced with budget shortfalls, state legislatures have cut taxpayer support for public universities, and the universities have raised tuition sharply.


After the Legislature cut its funding by $250 million, the UW System increased tuition by 18% in 2003 and 16% in 2004. The system has received a shrinking portion of the overall state budget in recent years as the Legislature has increased spending for other priorities, such as prisons and highways.


According to state law, the UW System should enable "students of all ages, backgrounds and levels of income to participate in the search for knowledge and individual development."


 



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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09


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The fact that you present only the two options of paying for some guys college education or paying for his housing in a prison tells me there is no point in continuing to try and debate this with you.

You win. Run for office and allocate whatever portion of the tax base you would like for education. When it's not enough come find me at my average wage job, I'll write you a check for what you need.

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oh I forgot the option of building a better nuke too.

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"And like Web, I enjoy throwing JR under the bus.  Problem is, it's usually under the special bus that I ride every day". Ghostdancer 12-18-09
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